Vagina Museum

Callistemon21

Apologies - there is an F

Although my photo could look like an escapee from Alcatraz of any gender.

Same here Callistemon21 in fact I'm surprised any country lets me in without question

Oh and to answer your question trisher I dont need to know whether someone is non binary it is no business of mine, in certain circumstances we need to know peoples sex, if you pretend non binary peopke do not have a sex in a medical setting for example you risk killing them.

I look ok because my passport is due for renewal, how I look in reality is what will scare them

Good points Lathyrus. Offenders in the transwomen category offend in the same way and rates as those who retain their male identity. trisher knows the only time trans status is recorded is when the trans person is the victim, or alleged victim.
When the difference between transwomen and women is to women's advantage it absolutely cannot be recorded, but when it's to the transwoman's advantage then it's alway recorded. Hence the number of rapes recorded by women sporting a penis. Not one rape has ever been recorded as by a transwoman. trisher knows all this but is adept at the disingenuous 'oh show me the stats, then I can be put right'

Callistemon21

Apologies - there is an F

Although my photo could look like an escapee from Alcatraz of any gender.

Mine too! I really can't look as old and haggard in real life as I do in that photo

trisher

Lathyrus

It’s a pity the trans communities don’t think as you do but are active in persecuting women, homosexuals and lesbians.

How contradictory that you ally yourself with them.

I don't believe the majority of the trans community are doing this Lathyrus but if you have some statistics to prove it I'm willing to be put right.

There cannot be any statistics of the type you request because incidences of assault and harassment by transwomen are recorded as incidences carried out by women and vice versa for transmen.

The trans communities will therefore always register at zero for crime of any kind.

There is however much evidence of violence, persecution and harassment by the trans communities towards the groups I spoke of. Cases of lesbians being groomed or threatened into sex with transwomen, of homosexuals harassed on the streets, of natal women being assaulted in what should have been safe spaces.

Some have reached court and have been posted about about on these threads. As we know from Rape cases statistically many more will have been hidden public view.

So effective is the silencing that soon even the public cases will cease to exist. Even if a woman has been raped the fact of the penis will be irrelevant. It will be a crime committed by a woman.

I'm always getting patted down too.

Apologies - there is an F

Although my photo could look like an escapee from Alcatraz of any gender.

Callistemon21 my new passport issued mid December 2021 lists number, name, nationality, date of birth, sex M/F, place of birth, and issue and expiry dates. They don't seem interested in any gender identity I may have, nor my sexual orientation, religious beliefs (if any), nor even my marital or working status.

They need to know my sex because a male is not allowed to do a 'pat down' or more intimate examination on a female passenger. And thank goodness for that as I've had more than one pat down at the airport and it was bad enough being done by a woman. I would strongly object to a man however he identified doing it.

This is so good to read I take it then that you will all be writing to your MP and asking that Non-binary be permitted as a recognised part of your ID on your passport?

Why?
I don't understand that as the only information on the passport is name, nationality, date of birth and dates of issue/expiry and passport number.

What does a pronoun have to do with your passport? It's simply a matter of formalising your belief you are non-binary. No pronouns involved. (my bold)
So now you want beliefs listed on your passport? So religion or none, whether you believe the earth is flat or round, do you believe in climate change or not, Covid denier or believer? Wow passports are going to get huge! No I won't be campaigning and as I understood it, it wasn't to be an extra with sex recorded and optional gender, but just the sex classification to record gender preference.
Many countries accept a non binary identity. On this I think Ukraine has it just right. Your birth certificate and passport have to record your birth sex and may not be altered. Things like driving licences etc can record gender preference.

Good points Mollygo if it gets you through security a bit quicker I could consider it ?? Enjoy your evening, and indulge your inner feelings!

Thanks for the clarification Rosie51
I think I might do a trisher leave now as we are going out for dinner with friends. This sort of leave isn’t real it’s just an expression of my inner feelings.

Non-binary people could campaign to have an additional gender category added which identified those who wish to make a gender statement.
They have. The UK government refused. Which is why I suggested all the non-binaries might like to help. Many countries accept a non binary identity.

As I mentioned up thread, Quinn is a non-binary Canadian footballer who plays on the women's team. I assume Quinn opted to play for that binary because Quinn has female biology which they seem happy to go with for the purpose of playing. I suppose they could have opted to play on the men's team except they'd never have been selected, lacking advantages like greater lung and heart capacity etc by virtue of having female rather than male biology.

A non binary female is female. Why would a female want anything else in their passport? What difference would you want NB to make? Special entrance gates, separate luggage racks, special treatment at customs? If you are non binary how do you dress to make that obvious?

This is so good to read I take it then that you will all be writing to your MP and asking that Non-binary be permitted as a recognised part of your ID on your passport?

No. I have zero interest in imposing my pronouns or my 'identity' on other people. I have no idea why you would 'take it' that I would be doing anything.

What does a pronoun have to do with your passport? It's simply a matter of formalising your belief you are non-binary. No pronouns involved.

trisher

^No, wrong again. Non-binary people definitely exist, and comprise the majority of the population - the ones who don't give a flying one about 'presenting as' one sex or the other, and change their clothing style according to their mood^
This is so good to read I take it then that you will all be writing to your MP and asking that Non-binary be permitted as a recognised part of your ID on your passport?
But isn't it a bit difficult to identify as non-binary and insist only women are entitled to enter women's spaces and be feminists?

Non binary refers to gender, that 'inner feeling'. Of course passports record sex which is still very much binary, either male or female. Non-binary people could campaign to have an additional gender category added which identified those who wish to make a gender statement. Perhaps you should get a book on basic biology it will make things very clear. There is no third, fourth, sex. Every human is formed from the fusion of a small motile gamete and a large immotile gamete. We are sexed, like every other sexually reproduced organism, according to which gamete we would produce. Even if for any reason we are unable to produce the gamete the pathway is still ascertainable.

But isn't it a bit difficult to identify as non-binary and insist only women are entitled to enter women's spaces and be feminists?
This shows very clearly you really do want to abandon any single sex spaces or services, no matter how much the majority of women (female sex) want. trisher and the patriarchy in perfect unison.

But Rosie51 says Non-binary people definitely exist, and comprise the majority of the population
So how will you know? non-binary is not a third sex. Every non-binary has a sex, and it cannot be changed.

This is so good to read I take it then that you will all be writing to your MP and asking that Non-binary be permitted as a recognised part of your ID on your passport?

No. I have zero interest in imposing my pronouns or my 'identity' on other people. I have no idea why you would 'take it' that I would be doing anything.

Also, of course I have no difficulty in insisting that only women enter women's spaces. They are based on sex, not the concept of 'gender' that appears to be optional in some world views.

Galaxy

If you are non binary and of the female sex then you are of course welcome in womens spaces. Do you think non binary people dont have a sex.

But Rosie51 says Non-binary people definitely exist, and comprise the majority of the population
So how will you know?

Galaxy

Also if you look at male violence for example I am not sure that it is only rich men oppressing women, they are part of it but poor men rape and kill women all the time. So it depends what you see as the main factor in womans oppression, for me its male violence. You could argue that rich white men set up the systems which mean terrible prosecution rates for rape but the actual committing of male violence, nope thats a fairly equal playing field.

That's interesting Galaxy but intersectional feminism would tell you it is the result of years of oppression of poor people which parrallels that of the oppression of women. That it results from the patriarchal standards imposed on all society that the strongest and most agressive person always wins and violence and rape is an inevitable part of that society, because of the way boys are educated, that violence is worse in poorer people because physical dominance is taught from an early age as a way to survive. Better off men use other methods to control women (although they may rape and use violence they are better at hiding it).

If you are non binary and of the female sex then you are of course welcome in womens spaces. Do you think non binary people dont have a sex.

Trisher, “Well I know what I'm sticking with.”
Yes trisher, we do know, ??, except when you are TTP and we arent able to recognise any difference.
Thank you *Doodledog for a clear unconvoluted explanation of T’s inaccuracies.*
Lathyrus most of us don’t think all trans are, or have ever been complicit in the persecution of women, homosexuals and lesbians.
The problem is, as we have seen at demonstrations where lesbians or homosexuals are forcibly set upon, and in activities like trying to ‘cancel’ women and hurling insults like bigotry and transphobia, that some transwomen, and sadly, some women who present as trisher does, do knowingly contribute to the persecution of women.

No, wrong again. Non-binary people definitely exist, and comprise the majority of the population - the ones who don't give a flying one about 'presenting as' one sex or the other, and change their clothing style according to their mood
This is so good to read I take it then that you will all be writing to your MP and asking that Non-binary be permitted as a recognised part of your ID on your passport?
But isn't it a bit difficult to identify as non-binary and insist only women are entitled to enter women's spaces and be feminists?

Also if you look at male violence for example I am not sure that it is only rich men oppressing women, they are part of it but poor men rape and kill women all the time. So it depends what you see as the main factor in womans oppression, for me its male violence. You could argue that rich white men set up the systems which mean terrible prosecution rates for rape but the actual committing of male violence, nope thats a fairly equal playing field.

Lathyrus

It’s a pity the trans communities don’t think as you do but are active in persecuting women, homosexuals and lesbians.

How contradictory that you ally yourself with them.

I don't believe the majority of the trans community are doing this Lathyrus but if you have some statistics to prove it I'm willing to be put right.