Vagina Museum

Chewbacca

Gametes are the determining factor for sex trisher, not wombs, or breasts, or a penis, testes or a cervix; they can never be changed. You can physically alter your appearance in any way you wish, wear a dress, high heels, lipstick and a bondage corset with a whip if you want to. But you can never, ever change your gametes and it's utterly futile to continue to rail against that immutable fact.

Thank you, Chewbacca.

Anneliese Dodds not Louise although I don't feel too bad mucking up her name

Thanks for that Chewbacca. Excellent point.

Jenni Murray has written a superb article for the Daily Mail, directly in response to the Louise Dodds interview on Woman's Hour, in which Ms Dodds struggled to explain what the definition of a woman is:

"Why do female politicians, who owe their place in the corridors of power thanks to the efforts of thousands of women who campaigned for their rights, appear unable to define what and who they are?"

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10600455/JENNI-MURRAY-point-women-Parliament-theyre-scared-say-woman-is.html

Gametes are the determining factor for sex trisher, not wombs, or breasts, or a penis, testes or a cervix; they can never be changed. You can physically alter your appearance in any way you wish, wear a dress, high heels, lipstick and a bondage corset with a whip if you want to. But you can never, ever change your gametes and it's utterly futile to continue to rail against that immutable fact.

Trisher, your expertise in twisting and sidetracking is second to none, but this latest really made me l***h.
Why should JKR say anything. Jill Murphy got her ideas from Elinor M Brent-Dyer who had girls from different backgrounds going away to boarding school and learning different things. There was bullying-though EBD stamped on it rather than making it the unpleasant main focus of all her stories as Jill Murphy did and JKR didn’t.
They had scholarship children who the bullies didn’t feel should be there. They had potions lessons where things sometimes went wrong, though in those days it was called cookery. They had dormitories, visitors, celebrations, teachers with particular foibles all of which were used in the WW books.
I never read that Jill Murphy acknowledged that she took her ideas from EBD, but now you’ve raised the issue, perhaps she should have.

I think that's pretty mild considering some of the things you've tried to accuse me of Doodledog. But hey if you can twist things so can I.

Oh, for goodness sake.

We have now moved to the stage, where you deliberately twist what I say. I didn't call anyone a quirk of nature, or irrelevant, as anyone not looking to be offensive can see by reading my post.

Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.
What a lovely thing to call another woman. I can't decide if it's worse to be a quirk or irrelevant.

Doodledog

*There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women*

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, or if you really believe that women who are born without a uterus are not women, but if they have female gametes they are women. If they have male ones they are men. Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.

Perhaps you should address that post to Copper3 Doodledog I'm just quoting.

There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, or if you really believe that women who are born without a uterus are not women, but if they have female gametes they are women. If they have male ones they are men. Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.

By the way the 7 stories element doesn't apply to JKR at all. Not unless you regard the story of a girl from a non-witch family attending a school for witches where one of the teachers hates her as one of the 7. I can't be bothered to post all the other similarities but they are here contentinfantasy.blogspot.com/2015/10/similarities-between-harry-potter-worst.html
It would have been nice if JKR had at least acknowledged Jill Murphy as an influence, but she never has.

Peasblossom

trisher

Copper3

Women have wombs.
Transwomen do not! No offense, but fact!

A friend of mine had hers removed at 29 because of cervical cancer. My mother had hers removed at 26 are you suggesting once they hadn't a womb they were no longer women?

No, no that’s a fallacious argument.

Akin to

Dogs have tails.
Apes do not have tails.
Therefore dogs are apes.

No logic or intelligence applied there.

There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women metro.co.uk/2019/03/31/grandmother-gives-birth-to-her-own-grandchild-as-her-daughter-was-born-without-a-womb-9072378/

I've got better thing to do!
?

Correct Doodledog. And don't forget the inevitable "YOU'RE ALL TRANSPHOBIC!", "Men wanting to be accepted as women is taking nothing away from you!" and "get over it, accept it, you've already lost this war" comments. Finally culminating in "Why can't you all just be kind?"

Chewbacca

No! I believe that's what's called a straw man argument!

.

We've reached the stage in the thread where we've been distracted from the topic, have spent time discussing whether or not JKR is a good writer and whether she is more of a plagiarist than any other storyteller, and have moved to seeing pointless holes picked in posts that are perfectly clear to the majority of people.

The next stage is usually either direct personal attacks, lectures on the progress of feminism through the ages or 'I've had enough of this so I'm leaving'. The thread then dies and sinks down the page, and the next time the TRAs do something to the detriment of women we do it all again.

Elegran, you got in before me on dogs and tails.

Of course women can have cancer that leaves them with breast/womb removed. It doesn’t mean they’re no longer women

No! I believe that's what's called a straw man argument!

I know trisher probably won’t answer this, so I’m asking, does anyone think she really believes that if she or anyone else was unfortunate enough to need their female parts removed they would stop being a woman?
What a blow that would be if she were to say that to those I know who have needed a hysterectomy.

Or even -
Dogs have tails.
Some dogs' tails are docked.
If its tail is docked, it is no longer a dog.

trisher

Copper3

Women have wombs.
Transwomen do not! No offense, but fact!

A friend of mine had hers removed at 29 because of cervical cancer. My mother had hers removed at 26 are you suggesting once they hadn't a womb they were no longer women?

No, no that’s a fallacious argument.

Akin to

Dogs have tails.
Apes do not have tails.
Therefore dogs are apes.

No logic or intelligence applied there.

For the avoidance of doubt a woman could lose every one of her unique sex markers ie uterus, cervix, ovaries, vagina and vulva and she would still be a woman, not a transwoman or a man.

Excellent.

trisher

Chewbacca

Her gender/sex, with or without womb, would depend entirely on her gametes trisher. I'm surprised that you didn't know that.

I wasn't the one who posted Women have wombs.
Transwomen do not! No offense, but fact!
According to that my mum became a transwoman in 1948

The middle statement is 100% correct or are you disputing that too?

As you know full well what the poster means it is quite unnecessary to try and point score. That tired argument has been debunked so many times, along with the once a woman has her menopause is she no longer a woman? For the avoidance of doubt a woman could lose every one of her unique sex markers ie uterus, cervix, ovaries, vagina and vulva and she would still be a woman, not a transwoman or a man.

Iam64 I'm agog watching the political parties tie themselves in knots trying to appear terribly knowledgeable about the gender issue whilst, at the same time, desperately trying to avoid the landmines of being accused of being transphobic if they make the slightest slip up. Kier Starmer desperately trying to convince us that "not just women have a cervix". Annelise Dodds crippling herself with anxiety in trying not to describe woman as an adult human female.

Suzanne Moore has written an excellent article in the Telegraph When Did Woman Become the Hardest Word to Define? As she says on Twitter "If a politician can't give a clear answer when asked on BBC Radio 4 Woman's Hour, it's evident that there's a problem"

Whoops fat fingers
We had writers in our group. Two of our group were well read on the seven story/myths/legends. Great that trans led to Harry Potter led to reminding us the rich history of literature