Vagina Museum

VioletSky

If trisher is gone, not much point staying

Laters

Oh wow. A gang?

Calling you stupid was wrong.

Saying you’re not a feminist is a point of view. There are many different views as to what constitutes feminism. Many posters here have been told they are not “real” feminists.

But nobody has stopped you from expressing your views as an equal, violetsky. Posters can chose to respond to individual posts or not.

Personally I think I made an excellent post a while back but holy anyone, yourself included, responded to it. Does that mean I being ignored, not being treated as an equal?

VS
So what's wrong with pointing out when something puts me off a discussion or speaking to a person?
Nothing - as long as you don’t strop or sulk when someone does the same?l.

Or am I not the right sort of woman?
Explain please? What is the right sort of woman to which you refer?

Today 21:06 VioletSky

Sorry Chrwbacca you were quite comfortable bringing up my personal history before so it can be hard to keep up.

VS, Who was it posted information about you, your feelings, your job etc. earlier in this thread?
Mmm now let me see . . . Oh yes, it was you VS. I think you talked about it making you hide these threads.
This thread isn’t about you, except when you try to make it so.

VS, Why do you think you know more about 'people, their past, their background, their education and their experiences' than others?

On other threads you have said that you have seen transpeople on videos talking about their experiences, which is not the same thing as knowing them.

I have no idea why you think that it is easier for you to understand and empathise with people than it is for others on this thread. Can you explain why you think that is the case?

If trisher is gone, not much point staying

Laters

Precisely so Allsorts, it doesn't make for a level playing field for the natal women athletes does it. I'd have no issue for trans women competing in any field of sport in their own category but to pit them against smaller, lighter, less muscled natal women, creates a huge disparity that must be soul destroying to the female competitors.

As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech.

Yeah, ask Kathleen Stock about that.

Well refusing to engage is something that an individual decides for themselves but turning off people to prevent them from expressing a view you don’t like is exactly the repressive regime you speak of.

So that will the intersectional feminists at the museum, won’t it. A regime that silences the views of women whose views don’t fit the regime.

I think we shall have to be identified, what sex were you at birth, you can’t have all these different categories on forms. That Russian swimmer, big burley, muscular, was obviously male, yet identified as female despite winning races as a male but now wanted to win as female, you couldn’t make it up. That’s just bonkers, they must be mentally ill.

Really?

I tend to view things a bit differently

Knowing a little bit about people, their past, their background, their education and their experiences actually makes it easier for me to understand and empathise with their views

No its not about me but I went to bed and work and came back to 11 quotes, 1 comment saying I'm not a feminist and 1 saying I'm stupid.

I'm still unsure that reacting to that was really wrong or that being forced to defend that is really me making a thread about me?

If I were simply allowed to express my thoughts as an equal we wouldn't have ended up here. Others have expressed their views more strongly and received far less feedback...

Of course I should not take that personally?

The reason the museum closed down the reply option is obvious. The posts were about transwomen in history. The anti-trans lobby would of course have tried to take over and much as on this thread introduce complete irrelevancies simply to publicise their own agenda and views. It's completely understandable.
As far as I can see few if any transwomen are involved in the running of the Vagina museum but even if they are accusing them of trying to silence natal women because of posts about transwomen ,by women, seems a bit extreme. These are natal women posting about transwomen and their right to do this is being challenged.
And now I'm off this thread. Because all these discussions do is give biased and discriminatory people a chance to post their unacceptable and insupportable views, by accusing transwomen of things they haven't done, by stirring up fears and division. That's why the comments on the tweets were turned off. Because intersectional (not transectional) feminists refuse to engage in arguments which are simply an excuse to promote biased views to such an extent that (as on this thread) some are unable to discuss any matter without introducing irrelevancies. And even unable to permit other women to post anything which they do not agree with. As I said before only dictators and repressive regimes restrict free speech.

That's the Twatter spat I meant Doodledog! She's sublime in her responses and completely out classes all insults and accusations hurled at her.

JKR has been in a Twatter spat with Laura Penny this week and she's just seamlessly agile in her ability and articulacy on women's rights. She's been accused of inflicting post traumatic disorder to the transactivists, despite them wishing death and harm to her and her family for years now.

Sorry VioletSky but this thread isn't about you, your past, your profession or your family, as riveting as that might be; it's about trans women thinking that they are natal women and the impact on all of us and that's all I want to discuss here. I'm happy for you to believe that I've acknowledged that you weren't gaslighting me; I have no skin invested either way as to how that makes you feel. Please, keep to the topic, for the sake of everyone who's interested in it.

Or am I not the right sort of woman?
What on Earth do you mean by this?

JKR is quite wonderful, isn't she?

She has really used her £££ for good. As well as giving huge amounts to charity, she is able to speak for the disenfranchised without being scared of bankruptcy, as she can fund lawyers to fight back. It's ridiculous that she should need to, as we are supposed to have free speech, but the TRAs have threatened her with all manner of vile things, and she basically laughs in their faces, whereas other victims of their campaigns lose their jobs and reputations simply for having an opinion.

She's also witty enough to run rings around the 'poor me' Twitterati who retreat behind 'you are being horrible - what about my mental health ?', and show them for the craven bullies they are.

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1500890856265498626?s=21
(you might have to scroll up to the top of the page - I'm hopeless at linking to Twitter)

Yes she is Callistemon.

Sorry Chrwbacca you were quite comfortable bringing up my personal history before so it can be hard to keep up

I appreciate the round about acknowledgement that I was nit gaslighting. That did make me uncomfortable

I say what I think

I literally have no filter at all. I'm likely autistic, baring in mind I work in SEN, have a diagnosed daughter and have had colleagues point this out to me lol

I'm lucky I generally don't think many horrible things

It's weird though, when you think I have been told that "cis" is offensive to others, I have stopped saying it. When I have been called passive aggressive I've apologised and tried to make sure I don't come across that way. When I've been insulted I haven't thrown any back.

So what's wrong with pointing out when something puts me off a discussion or speaking to a person?

Or am I not the right sort of woman?

Oh, she's great, isn't she!

Despite the threats and the vile abuse she's received she will not be silenced will she Chewbacca and neither will we.

I'm becoming ever more enamoured with JKRowling. Today she tweeted "Woman. They who must not be named." Long may she continue to fight long and hard for women's voices to be heard.

Chewbacca no, you simply did not hear my comment as it was intended Difficult with the written word; it reads as it reads. You haven't been "discredited", I've simply explained why it feels that you're wrong footing us. Perhaps it's due to the inadequacies of the written word and the inevitable lack of inflection and expression that a true discussion would enable. But I'm uncomfortable with discussing your own personal history on this thread and so will leave that with you.

VioletSky

trisher that is exactly the issue

This is why we can't have nice things (discussions)

It's women trying to silence other women by telling them they are too wrong, too stupid, too not feminist, too passive aggressive, too forthright, too loud, too slow to answer questions too any excuse to possibly be allowed an opinion

And its right there over and over in black and white but it is only acceptable to say so if you are the right sort of woman.

What happened to us?

But we're not.

You're putting to your own personal interpretation on this.

trisher seems to be perfectly capable of arguing her points in an objective way without making it personal.

I can disagree with trisher without making it personal and I hope we both respect that.

It's not about us as far as I know.
I could be wrong.

I think that on threads where someone is talking about a child who is confused about things, most people would be 'kind' and supportive - of course we would.

That doesn't mean that we support the ideology that makes confused children leap to the conclusion that they have been 'born in the wrong body', or that it is possible to change sex. It's just that we feel sympathy for a fellow poster who is trying to cope with a looking-glass world, and hope that her grandchild will be ok, unlike the numerous young people who are desperately trying to de-transition.