Vagina Museum

Questions won't or can't, be answered Rosie51 I'm still waiting for clarification as to the difference between majority comments and majority views and why one is deemed to be less worthy of consideration. I suspect that their can be no answer but the thread has been derailed enough by a personal introspection.

I haven't called people who disagree e an echo chamber, I have said that is what it would be if other thoughts and opinions aren't welcome.

I'm not a victim, just pointing out issues with these discussions

Do you think it is ok to call me stupid?

If I called you stupid would you say nothing?

I'm actually sort of middle ground here really because I do understand a lot of people's issues. I do think some issues aren't working and need a new approach. I think this is why I'm picking up on things so much instead of just settling in and having an argument

Oh and Trans women are not over women for me so that's also untrue. Is it OK to point that out?

VioletSky

Rosie51

Please tell me, how my repeatedly asking for respectful discussion with those of opposing views to mine is "subscribing to an echo chamber"?

VS
Why are you calling posters who disagree with you an echo chamber? Why do you constantly dismiss posters' concerns as 'nothing to worry about', advise them to take a deep breath (how patronising!) If posters disagree with and question your posts you immediately portray yourself as a victim. You asking for respectful discussion isn't subscribing to an echo chamber.
Only you know for sure whether or not you're part of the echo chamber that chants for transwomen over natal women (it's never for transmen, still wondering why).

How's that list of the rights transpeople don't have that everyone else does coming along?

If asking for respectful discussion is policing then I'm policing

The vagina museum is run by women who accept trans women as women and this year they have chosen to celebrate trans women on woman's day.

Possibly this choice has been made because there is a lot of commentary at the moment that will have a negative impact on trans women and this is a way to show them some love and support.

Next year it may be women who have been queen or women who gave been to space or women who gave birth to babies over 10 pounds vaginally... Who knows

But I doubt anyone would mind any of those or feel angry and pushed aside by that

I'm at a loss as to why you're trying to police and shut down this discussion violetsky or why you're highlighting that posts are "majority comments" rather than "majority views", hinting that one is of less value than the other. What do you mean by this? There has been, as always, some erudite and well articulated posts on here, whether you consider them to be "comments" or "views" and most of them are saying the same thing: If trans women want a day to show off their spanking new vaginas, or any other bits of genitalia that they acquire, it would be greatly appreciated if they could do it on their own time and not hijack National Women's Day. There's no need to try to shut down our voices on here; men are already doing that for you.

Rosie51

Please tell me, how my repeatedly asking for respectful discussion with those of opposing views to mine is "subscribing to an echo chamber"?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights VS can you itemise the rights transpeople don't have that everyone else does?

Well said Mollygo

VS I have asked people to take responsibility for that because, echo chambers aren't healthy and can not only make views more entrenched but make them enhanced past what is healthy to the well being for those having them
oh how I agree, especially those that subscribe to the echo chamber transwomen are women and believe there is no difference between men who want to be women and women who were born that way, and their wishes should always come first. If transwomen (males) made no attempt to breach those areas that should be single sex then there'd hardly be a whisper about them. Thankfully sports cheats like Lia Thomas are waking up more and more people to this total disregard for females. Would you approve of one day that was dedicated to celebrating only the female sex? Just the one day, not a lot to ask surely?

Mollygo I'm not suffering at all, I think you are making that mistake because I'm only speaking for myself about what I observe

One thing that we all seem to agree on is that these conversations matter

It's just my opinion that under these conditions, which I have tried to explain, these conversations aren't actually helping or changing anything and people aren't actually listening to each other.

When opposing views get tired of that and leave the thread, the thread dies very quickly

So is this a discussion or a rallying call?

If it's a discussion, do so fairly, look for common ground, find compromise we can agree on and then we can all find a way to put that to those who can change things.

If it's a rallying call, where are you going with it? What do you hope to actually achieve in the real world? Where is your front line? What is your plan to affect real change, do you have the weight of all women behind you?

Because I'm afraid the other side is making progress fighting for their rights

Please could you clarify what the difference is between majority views and majority comments and what is it about that difference that gives you the right to diminish the two?

Agree entirely with your post @ 15.51 Iam64

VS, that’s the best thing you can do. Don’t read, don’t answer, don’t suffer the way you see yourself suffering.
I, along with most posters am Understanding of womens fears. I am understanding that many TW do not involve themselves in the less salubrious activities of some TW.
However I am also understanding of the fact that TW trying to thrust themselves into and override womens rights is wrong and that saying men are women is a biological untruth. Trying to claim womens rights for men is what causes the angst.
Have an international TW day. Have a celebrate my manufactured vagina for TW day, but not on International Womens’ Day - they aren’t and never will be female.

I know people think they have a "majority view" on these threads but actually what they have is "majority comments".

If you look at threads where people have asked for support with a trans relative for an example, you will see an outpouring of acceptance and kindness.

Those voices just aren't on these threads because these threads are not welcoming to other views and generally become very uncomfortable reading.

I have asked people to take responsibility for that because, echo chambers aren't healthy and can not only make views more entrenched but make them enhanced past what is healthy to the well being for those having them. As well as crossing lines when it comes to attacking other people who are entitled to express their thoughts too. This ultimately damages those doing rather than receiving more in my opinion.

Yet here we are again

VioletSky, as Callistemon said, other posters Who disagree manage to battle on ….without accusing others of personal attacks. I find some of your posts where you claim to be the victim, passive aggressive. I do realise you won’t agree with me -

VioletSky

Callistimon Read what I said again, the information I was trying to get across is all there.

I will just state that I was disagreeing with your post, not attacking you.

As far as I can tell, other posts were not personal attacked either.

Callistimon Read what I said again, the information I was trying to get across is all there.

Come home, sit down with a coffee and there are 11 comments quoting me, 1 saying I'm not a feminist and 1 calling me stupid.
I can't find 11 posts saying that Violetsky
Are these personal attacks supposed to be on this thread?

I see some posts that disagree with your viewpoint, but that is something different entirely.

Other posters who find themselves in disagreement still manage to keep battling on, presenting their viewpoints, without assuming it is a personal attack.

Chewbacca

^Ah, so the onus is on me to avoid threads where people are angry rather than on them to not^ take their frustrations out on others unfairly.

It was you that said that you hide these threads VioletSky, I was simply agreeing with you. Not sure why you're now saying that the "onus" is on you to hide them!

Ah, so the onus IS on me

Obviously I don't agree with that as I like discussion, not being berated by angry people

So rather than take the onus off me or agree that it should not be there you have described that actually it IS

Which is why I mentioned it in the first place

Logic and reason

Rosie51

trisher

Rosie51

trisher transwomen who recognise and acknowledge oppression and don't think it's OK to silence someone simlpy because their views don't comply with some standard you have set

to quote myself
Goodness they've even managed to get the dictionary definition of woman, or I ❤️ J K Rowling removed for hate speech if its on a billboard. That's silencing.
why silence either statement just because those facts don't comply with some standard they have set?

GoldenAge are you unaware that 80% or more of transwomen retain their penis and have no intention of having it inverted into a neovagina? Many want to use their penis for sex with women as they identify as transwomen lesbians.

Rosie51 did no one ever teach you two wrongs doen't make a right?
If activists censure women is that any reason for women to censure women?

For goodness' sake do you never stop with the platitudes? Will you censure or condemn those transwomen who have silenced and continue to dox and threaten women who do not accept their belief akin to a religion that transwomen are identical to women? You're a woman (I presume) and yet you censure the women on here who disagree with your stance all the time.

Thiis is a discussion Rosie51 I don't agree with your beliefs.I don't believe the same things you do. But I have never told you that you cannot post what you believe or say what you think. I condemn all hate speech and always have done.
I don't think it's OK for anyone to say harmful or discriminatory things about anyone.
I don't think it's OK to tell other women what they should tweet.

I said they suffered the same oppression and discrimination

No trisher they don't suffer the same oppression and discrimination; they suffer oppression and discrimination that is unique to them. Natal women cannot identify with their oppression because they have never experienced it; they haven't lived it or experienced it just as a trans woman can never identify with the lived experiences of a natal woman. They are completely, utterly and totally separate and need to be addressed, focused and platformed separately.
I have no idea what size limits has to do with anything or the relevance to what it has to do with sex and gender?

Ah, so the onus is on me to avoid threads where people are angry rather than on them to not take their frustrations out on others unfairly.

It was you that said that you hide these threads VioletSky, I was simply agreeing with you. Not sure why you're now saying that the "onus" is on you to hide them!

trisher

Rosie51

trisher transwomen who recognise and acknowledge oppression and don't think it's OK to silence someone simlpy because their views don't comply with some standard you have set

to quote myself
Goodness they've even managed to get the dictionary definition of woman, or I ❤️ J K Rowling removed for hate speech if its on a billboard. That's silencing.
why silence either statement just because those facts don't comply with some standard they have set?

GoldenAge are you unaware that 80% or more of transwomen retain their penis and have no intention of having it inverted into a neovagina? Many want to use their penis for sex with women as they identify as transwomen lesbians.

Rosie51 did no one ever teach you two wrongs doen't make a right?
If activists censure women is that any reason for women to censure women?

For goodness' sake do you never stop with the platitudes? Will you censure or condemn those transwomen who have silenced and continue to dox and threaten women who do not accept their belief akin to a religion that transwomen are identical to women? You're a woman (I presume) and yet you censure the women on here who disagree with your stance all the time.

Rosie51

trisher transwomen who recognise and acknowledge oppression and don't think it's OK to silence someone simlpy because their views don't comply with some standard you have set

to quote myself
Goodness they've even managed to get the dictionary definition of woman, or I ❤️ J K Rowling removed for hate speech if its on a billboard. That's silencing.
why silence either statement just because those facts don't comply with some standard they have set?

GoldenAge are you unaware that 80% or more of transwomen retain their penis and have no intention of having it inverted into a neovagina? Many want to use their penis for sex with women as they identify as transwomen lesbians.

Rosie51 did no one ever teach you two wrongs doen't make a right?
If activists censure women is that any reason for women to censure women?

Ah, so the onus is on me to avoid threads where people are angry rather than on them to not take their frustrations out on others unfairly.

Not sure I agree with that

Poor excuse to use personal insults, make assumptions or barrage someone with comments without waiting for a reply.

This discussion is amongst equals, holding a "majority view" depends on the circles you move in and is meaningless

I didn't say it was the same. I said they suffered the same oppression and discrimination. Which actually is probably worse than most because women are now trying to discriminate against them as well. Apparently becuse some of them are bigger and stronger than most women. Are we then to have a size limit for women? Actually I can tell you (not from personal experience) that taller and bigger women have lots of difficulties to put up with anyway and now they aren't considered to be womanly enough.

Why do we need a Virginia museum anyway? Why does it have to be a separate museum . It could be part of a general anatomy museum of which I should imagine there are quite a few.
Anyone past puberty that has one knows where it is and what it is used for, do we really need a museum dedicated to it?
I can't imagine many school visits.