Vagina Museum

and how on earth did someone with these attitudes get to be working in a rape crisis centre

That's an easy one Iam64: by lying and deception.

trisher

Chewbacca

That was Mridul Wadwha Fanny and there was, and still is, outrage over his comments that before a raped woman could be helped at that rape crisis centre, they would "first have to address their prejudices". This means that any woman rape or assault victim would NOT be allowed to ask to be examined, cared for or supported by a natal woman and would have to accept that THERE may well be men there too. But it's all fine because Wadwha and his ilk are confident that a victim of male rape and violence won't mind being intimately examined by a man.

Honestly do you never get tired of posting inaccuracies?? She did not say before a raped woman could be helped at that rape crisis centre, they would "first have to address their prejudices she said that at some point in her journey a woman subjected to violence might choose to face her prejudices, and that might be part of her recovery and of helping her from entering into abusive relationships
Basically it is about empowering women so they do not simply accept a role of victim but recognise the patriachy how it operates and the roles it assigns people. But hell that might mean women become powerful and you wouldn't want that would you?

at some point in her journey a woman subjected to violence might choose to face her prejudices and that might be part of her recovery and of helping her from entering into abusive relationships

This is victim blaming at its best. The fact it comes from s/he adds to the offence caused. Someone who lived the bulk of their life as a man should be very careful before heaping judgement onto women fleeing male violence. S/he needs to focus in their own journey and how on earth did someone with these attitudes get to be working in a rape crisis centre

Do you know I've answered all these questions before. The anti-trans ideaology seems to be if we keep hammering at it she's going to crack. I've got news for you sisters there is nothing feminist about accusing and denigrating another woman, but I can see it is necessary to try and maintain your stance that everything is the fault of transactivists in the light of an awful lot of evidence that transpeople are still victimised.

Mollygo

I was going to post, but I think I’ll wait for trisher’s replies. I’ll just add a further question,
Trisher, do you think males should be allowed to apply for jobs classified for women (AHF) applicants especially when the job includes dealing with vulnerable women? I’m aware of “equal opportunities” so a simple yes or no answer is fine.

I think transwomen are women Mollygo and they bring a wealth of experience in dealiing with victimisation and oppression to any situation. I think anyone should be entitled to choose as an advisor or therapist and have someone they are happy with. There are some women I wouldn't want anywhere near me if I needed help, and was vulnerable, their prejudices and biased views could do nothing but harm.

Chewbacca

That was Mridul Wadwha Fanny and there was, and still is, outrage over his comments that before a raped woman could be helped at that rape crisis centre, they would "first have to address their prejudices". This means that any woman rape or assault victim would NOT be allowed to ask to be examined, cared for or supported by a natal woman and would have to accept that THERE may well be men there too. But it's all fine because Wadwha and his ilk are confident that a victim of male rape and violence won't mind being intimately examined by a man.

Honestly do you never get tired of posting inaccuracies?? She did not say before a raped woman could be helped at that rape crisis centre, they would "first have to address their prejudices she said that at some point in her journey a woman subjected to violence might choose to face her prejudices, and that might be part of her recovery and of helping her from entering into abusive relationships
Basically it is about empowering women so they do not simply accept a role of victim but recognise the patriachy how it operates and the roles it assigns people. But hell that might mean women become powerful and you wouldn't want that would you?

That was Mridul Wadwha Fanny and there was, and still is, outrage over his comments that before a raped woman could be helped at that rape crisis centre, they would "first have to address their prejudices". This means that any woman rape or assault victim would NOT be allowed to ask to be examined, cared for or supported by a natal woman and would have to accept that THERE may well be men there too. But it's all fine because Wadwha and his ilk are confident that a victim of male rape and violence won't mind being intimately examined by a man.

OFG Doodledog how many times do I have to say it.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed.
The law says if any woman would not use a service because a transwoman was present they can be excluded I agree with the law and think it should be enforced.
I think victims in court need proper protection, should always have the alternative of presenting their evidence by remote means and should have no need to face any one they are afraid of, listen to them, pay attention to them or in any way be forced to do anything they are uncomfortable with.
As for not lecturing you about Caster Semenya and the other black women being discriminated against in sport well if you actually acknowledged there is a real problem and black women are suffering I wouldn't need to. But not being an intersectional feminist I suppose accepting and acknowledging white privilege is difficult for you.

There was this person; but it wasn’t the one I was thinking of www.thetimes.co.uk/article/protests-over-trans-woman-heading-rape-crisis-centre-wp7hwbv09

Quite recently there was a transwoman in charge of Rape Support somewhere, wasn’t there?

I was going to post, but I think I’ll wait for trisher’s replies. I’ll just add a further question,
Trisher, do you think males should be allowed to apply for jobs classified for women (AHF) applicants especially when the job includes dealing with vulnerable women? I’m aware of “equal opportunities” so a simple yes or no answer is fine.

I am talking about your posts in general (not just the ones on this particular thread), where you have supported all the things I mentioned.

For avoidance of doubt:
Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be housed in female prisons, even if they are sex offenders?

Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be allowed to stay in women's DV refuges?

Do you think that transwomen should be able to compete against women in sport, even when the sport requires physical strength?

Do you feel that chosen pronouns should be used at all times, even in a court, and even when using them is clearly distressing to the victim?

Please do not lecture us on Caster Semenya or risk assessments? I am talking here about why people may appear to 'assign beliefs to you', and it is because you have defended these things routinely over the years.

Doodledog

*I really don't understand why any of you constantly feel the need to assign me views which harm, victimise or denigrate another human being.*

We don't 'assign you these views', we read your posts, which repeatedly supported policies that allow women to be locked up with sex offending men in jails, to flee violence to refuges where men are allowed to stay, to lose in sporting contests to physically stronger men, and to be expected to refer to the person who raped her as 'she', amongst other things. All of which harm and denigrate other human beings.

And there you have it exactly what I haven't said!
I have said the problem began with 4 transwomen committing suicide in men's prisons in a relatively short period of time which left the authorities with a problem. But this of course wasn't in keeping with the anti-trans propoganda being proliferated by those on these threads who would much rather you thought that it was transactivists who caused the change. I have said it was a difficult problem and a transwomen prison wing has now been opened. At no time have I said women should be locked up with male offenders. The safety of all prisoners is a concern, I don't limit my concerns purely to women because transwomen have commited suicide, young men are raped and our prison system is underfunded and badly run.
I've also expressed deep concerns about women's sport which has a record of abuse and invasive methods of deciding who is a women and which has consistently made racist decisions about women. Some of the women discriminated against have commited suicide
Can you notice the common factor here? Post anything which reveals the real information about what is happening, which shows that more people are involved than the transactivists some choose to blame for everything and you will be misrepresented. You will be accused of all sorts of things and told you have said something you haven't. All it shows to me is how unfounded much of the information posted by the so called gender critical feminists on these threads is. Because if they had real evidence (apart from the very few cases they perpetually bring up) they would post it and stop telling me what I think or what I have said.

Good post Rosie51.
Just popping in agree .
Fact for the day . . . transwomen are transwomen.
Welcome to all those transwomen whose purpose in life isn’t to use their trans persona to cheat or endanger or be in places intended for women and girls. There’s many of you out there. If only you’d stand up and fight against those TW who are damaging the image of transwomen by their actions.

Doodledog

*I really don't understand why any of you constantly feel the need to assign me views which harm, victimise or denigrate another human being.*

We don't 'assign you these views', we read your posts, which repeatedly supported policies that allow women to be locked up with sex offending men in jails, to flee violence to refuges where men are allowed to stay, to lose in sporting contests to physically stronger men, and to be expected to refer to the person who raped her as 'she', amongst other things. All of which harm and denigrate other human beings.

This
And thanks Rosie51 for reminding Amber that cis is offensive to the majority

AmberSpyglass firstly 'cis' is an extremely offensive term and it would be nice if you could show a smidgeon of respect and not use it. Secondly, popping in, as is your want, only to post your repeated mantra that transwomen are women doesn't make it true and doesn't actually add anything to the conversation does it? What has a transwoman transed from? Strange that you never mention transmen or non-binary, but I expect you have your reasons. I think you'll find that transwomen are transwomen, the clue being in the title.

Just popping in to say that trans women are women and deserve to be in any space where cis women are. And the law, by and large, supports that.

I really don't understand why any of you constantly feel the need to assign me views which harm, victimise or denigrate another human being.

We don't 'assign you these views', we read your posts, which repeatedly supported policies that allow women to be locked up with sex offending men in jails, to flee violence to refuges where men are allowed to stay, to lose in sporting contests to physically stronger men, and to be expected to refer to the person who raped her as 'she', amongst other things. All of which harm and denigrate other human beings.

Mollygo

This is an interesting study but it doesn’t explain why you’re so pro transition, even knowing what harm it can do to those who don’t really understand the future impact it has, and even maybe those who do.

Once again a complete misrepresentation of my views. The only reason I can think for people to keep posting what I supposedly think is that they understand their own views are unacceptable and mine are reasonable and so they try desperately to discredit me.
I am pro people being able to live happily and safely in whatever way they choose to, providing in doing so they cause no harm to others. If transitioning is their choice why would I offer any opposition to that choice any more than I would oppose someone choosing a gay marriage.
I really don't understand why any of you constantly feel the need to assign me views which harm, victimise or denigrate another human being.

This is an interesting study but it doesn’t explain why you’re so pro transition, even knowing what harm it can do to those who don’t really understand the future impact it has, and even maybe those who do.

This is an interesting NHS study www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-open/article/access-to-care-and-frequency-of-detransition-among-a-cohort-discharged-by-a-uk-national-adult-gender-identity-clinic-retrospective-casenote-review/3F5AC1315A49813922AAD76D9E28F5CB
It isn't a large study.

I can’t give accurate figures for those detransitioning, but I would point out that in those three links you quoted Trisher none of them refer to figures/research later than 2018, and the earliest I spotted (very quick glance) was 2011.
Now I think we’d all accept that things have moved on a lot since even 2018; there’s been a known 4,000% increase in the numbers of young girls/women seeking to transition, and that’s why I’m willing to believe someone like Sinead Watson who has actual lived experience of both transition and detransition.
I accept that Twitter isn’t the best place to find accurate research/numbers but I feel nothing for admiration for the many Sineads who are now finding the courage to come forward and tell their horror stories, while knowing that trans activists will be absolutely vile to them.
There’s a long read posted today on Twitter by another detransitioner. It can be found at helena @lacroicsz. It can also be found on lacroicsz.substack.com
She’s American, but a lot of it is applicable to what’s been happening here, other than her having to buy her own testosterone, which in the UK is prescribed for the young girls/women. Fortunately, she never went as far as surgery for which she is very grateful.

Actually I’ve been spending some time on line and there are some quite recent 2021 studies on detransitioning. As far as I can tell reputable from places like Cambridge University.

That particular one found that 13.6% of a transitioned cohort wished to retranstion within a five year period . Most frequently cited reasons were that transition had not helped their negative body image or their mental problems as they had believed it would.

The study’s conclusions were that the desire to retransition was more common than previously reported.

An disturbing observation was that LGBTQ+ organisations had given support to almost all the cohort during the initial transition but had offered support to only 13% of those who wished to retransition. Participants in the study spoke of hostility to their requests for support.

There arent studies firstly because the phenomena of female to male transition increase is so recent that its not possible, we are watching it unfold in front of our eyes. Secondly because those who provide health care for transpeople seem to have been completely inadquate in keeping accurate data.

trisher

Doodledog
You are missing the point quite spectacularly, trisher, whether deliberately or otherwise.
Perhaps I am but the evidence is there disregarding it or playing semantics shows a distinct lack of concern for suicidal people. Not really my post to answer, but I can’t find anything that shows any lack of concern for suicidal people.
Except perhaps for those who talk about suicide amongst trans and still support physical and chemical changes to children and young people’s bodies which result in them committing suicide.

So if it’s acceptable not to have actual figures for this, it’s obviously acceptable not to have actual figures for those who detransition but only the feedback from those affected.
See you aren’t answering this. Is it only acceptable not to have figures for your points?