Vagina Museum

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Thanks for the link FarNorth.

I heard that, agree she was excellent. Thanks for posting the link

Here is a very good speech from Baroness Nicholson yesterday in the House of Lords.

It is about 15 mins.
I recommend listening to all of it, or at least from 9m20s to the end.

youtu.be/QVHX-vazMQc

Apologies, I should be clear that I agree, no link between homosexuality and paedophilia

trisher

Iam64

Cottaging was one way gay men could meet when homosexuality was illegal. Some gay men enjoy cottaging, the freedom to have sex in that way adds to the thrill.

Most paedophiles are men. Women still take their boy children into the women’s toilet with them to keep them safe.

Of course it was (have I said otherwise) and of course there is no link whatsoever with homosexuality and paedophiles but there was at one time lot of public misinformation that linked them. I posted a quote earlier.

Yes I agreed with you but added my comment which you disagree with

Iam64

Cottaging was one way gay men could meet when homosexuality was illegal. Some gay men enjoy cottaging, the freedom to have sex in that way adds to the thrill.

Most paedophiles are men. Women still take their boy children into the women’s toilet with them to keep them safe.

Of course it was (have I said otherwise) and of course there is no link whatsoever with homosexuality and paedophiles but there was at one time lot of public misinformation that linked them. I posted a quote earlier.

Cottaging was one way gay men could meet when homosexuality was illegal. Some gay men enjoy cottaging, the freedom to have sex in that way adds to the thrill.

Most paedophiles are men. Women still take their boy children into the women’s toilet with them to keep them safe.

FarNorth

^I remember people being uncomfortable about gay people in toilets and changing rooms^

This is what I said I don't remember.

Why would people be worried about female people or male people using the facilities they always had done?

I was too young to be aware of the Sunday Pictorial claims but I do remember disparaging attitudes and rude names.
I don't remember any mention of toilets or changing rooms.

Firstly gay men did use public toilets to meet. It's known as cottaging. It was mostly a way to have sex with other men but many linked it with paedophiles and made claims boys weren't safe in toilets.

I remember people being uncomfortable about gay people in toilets and changing rooms

This is what I said I don't remember.

Why would people be worried about female people or male people using the facilities they always had done?

I was too young to be aware of the Sunday Pictorial claims but I do remember disparaging attitudes and rude names.
I don't remember any mention of toilets or changing rooms.

The Stonewall riots were led by a bunch of cross dressing queens who used the pronoun "she"

i.e. men in dresses

I hope things have changed 20 years ago I remember a newly appointed headteacher who married a woman just before he applied for the job. The marriage didn't last. When they divorced my gay friend said he couldn't understand it because everyone knew the man was gay. (some of us didn't). The HT married a man a few years later. I've always wondered why he tried to be straight.

Thanks for that jolly info FannyC. I acknowledge we are giving anecdotal information but our lived experience is that the 50’s attitudes to gay men and lesbians are gone. There will always be the occasional bigot but society is at ease.

Up until recently I worked at a (very) Catholic Secondary School.
One of the assistant Heads is very openly gay, married and he and his husband are adoptive parents of a boy who attends the school.

There were several other openly gay male teachers.

I can’t recall any gay women though; I suppose they don’t tend to be so ‘open’ as men, if you know what I mean!

Our daughters went to a faith high school. The gym and drams teachers were lesbian.!!no issue. Fifth and sixth form students were delighted to see them on the Unison float

Iam64, where I work there is now a gay teacher and there used to be a gay supply teacher famous for his smart dressing and flamboyant waistcoats (unfortunately he died recently) who brought their partners to PTA functions. We often deal with families who have split up where the mother’s new partner is female. So things are looking up from that point of view. Neither of them make/made any attempt to influence the children or announce(d) their sexuality, but they provide(d) excellent role models, as does Owain, the weather announcer on North West News.

Sadly your last sentence is true and allowing self id is making that easier for ill-intentioned males and is not not helping.

I’m in agreement with trisher about teachers/social workers feeling the need to keep their homosexuality private. I’m relieved things have progressed and gay men are no longer assumed to be paedophiles

The fact that men are m0re likely to abuse women and children remains

I don't remember that either FarNorth. My brother now in his mid 60's and his friends of a similar age and older, never had any problems when using public toilets and changing rooms.
From an article tracing the history of Gay activism
In 1952, The Sunday Pictorial published a series of articles called ‘Evil Men’, taking a clear stand against any future legislation that could one day legalise homosexuality, as there were talks of introducing one at that time. One of their articles sheds light on the perception of homosexuality in British society at that time:

“[…] the chief danger of the perverts is the corrupting influence they have on youth. Most people know there are such things – ‘pansies’ – mincing, effeminate young men who call themselves queers. But simple decent folk regard them as freaks and rarities. […] If homosexuality were tolerated here, Britain would rapidly become decadent” (Sanderson, cited from Buckle, 46).

Not only was the general public influenced by the negative tone of the newspapers, homosexuality began to be defined and understood in these terms by everyone, including homosexuals themselves (Buckle, 47). There were constant associations between homosexuality and paedophilia at this point in time; the public opinion remained largely negative in the 1950s, and continued even until much later
I suppose I am older but that culture remained well into the 1960s and was still in some organisations and schools well into the '70s and 80s so gay teachers kept their sexuality very private.

Excellent post @ 22.58 yesterday Rosie. Nothing that the gay community has fought for when it comes to equality has negatively impacted on the heterosexual community.

I don't remember that either FarNorth. My brother now in his is mid 60's and his friends of a similar age and older, never had any problems when using public toilets and changing rooms.

Too many general comments without anything to substantiate the claims being made appear on these threads Doodledog.

"The actions of a few ill-intentioned trans and their vociferous supporters and their determination to override women's (AHF) rights, as we have been saying, reflects badly on all the other trans." Exactly Mollgo.

VioletSky

I put a moment on the wrong one of these threads

Going to take a break but I just wanted to say that while there are many differences between what different demographics go through that need to be aknowledged and respected and that is so so important.

When it comes to what discrimination is and what that looks like, I feel that rather than splitting it up into smaller fights, it's important that we all stand together against discrimination and for equality. We are louder and stronger together.

Well I’m not about to abandon my support for women only spaces, my rejection of men claiming to be women then competing against women in sport. Caitlin Jenner shares the opposition to this.
We are only louder and stronger together if we reach a degree of consensus

I put a moment on the wrong one of these threads

Going to take a break but I just wanted to say that while there are many differences between what different demographics go through that need to be aknowledged and respected and that is so so important.

When it comes to what discrimination is and what that looks like, I feel that rather than splitting it up into smaller fights, it's important that we all stand together against discrimination and for equality. We are louder and stronger together.

VioletSky

Mollygo Well that's just not true or fair really.

???

Doodledog

*But Saviours always think only they have he truth. It’s part of the complex.*

Yup. It goes along with the delusion that only they can define abstracts such as ‘kind’, ‘good’ or what it means to be an ‘ally’. Supreme arrogance really - the rest of us are keenly aware that these concepts are nuanced and cannot be applied in a blanket fashion.

???

No Lathyrus

I can see how you would think that because I can be quite passionate but my point of view has changed greatly on these discussions because I do listen.

I think as well that there is large element of point scoring that goes on in these discussions and it can be easy to get caught up in that. Even though personal point scoring does not len any weight to personal opinion.

Have you considered that maybe you move in different circles to me, so while I am repeating what I have heard in my circles and you are repeating what you have heard in yours, that doesn't make either of us "saviours" and qualified to speak for everyone.

But Saviours always think only they have he truth. It’s part of the complex.

Yup. It goes along with the delusion that only they can define abstracts such as ‘kind’, ‘good’ or what it means to be an ‘ally’. Supreme arrogance really - the rest of us are keenly aware that these concepts are nuanced and cannot be applied in a blanket fashion.