Thinking about people and NHS in general

I also watch channel 4 24 hours in A & E.........it is disgraceful what some people go to A and E for......some sit laughing and joking with friends they've bought with them...one young man had 3 friends go in the treatment room with him, one carrying a box of fast food.! he said he thought he was having a heart attack..........nothing wrong with him except anxiety even though he was laughing.
people go

sharon103, no need to apologise, I posted quickly and could have been more careful in my wording. I agree with you that difficult life experiences, being close to people with m.h, illness and experiencing it ourselves does broaden our understanding and if we are fortunate, makes us stronger.

Iam64

sharon103 I hope my post didn’t read as dismissing or judging mental health problems. It wasn’t intended in that way. Im aware of the devastating impact of mental health on the sufferer and their loved ones

Apologies to you Iam64. if I seemed a bit sharp. No i didn't take it the wrong way. I feel awful now.
It's just that the subject is close to my heart as I've had a couple of friends taken their lives, two close family, our mum twice attempted, eldest son attempted. A few other relatives with anxiety and myself with dreadful depression, anxiety and suicidal way back in 1994 owing to life's events.
I don't look for sympathy as I think it's made me stronger but I'm still an anxious person. I so wish I could educate the doctors.

Thank you for reading my post.

Calendargirl

Don’t know what the answer is. When I was young, if you saw an ambulance, it was because of a road accident or similar, they didn’t seem to be used the same as nowadays.

When my dad collapsed with a heart attack at home, this was 50 years ago, we called the GP, not an ambulance! How times have changed.

Would charging people make a difference?

Just as an aside, my daughter, in Australia, pays $94 for a GP appointment. For her and her children.

Makes you think.

I am alive today and still have a healthy heart because an ambulance was called when I had a heart attack. The paramedics started preparing me for surgery in the ambulance and I had a stent fitted within an hour of the initial call. Apparently, I have no damage to my heart because I was treated within 90 minutes.

If you think you're having a heart attack don't ever hesitate to call 999. Don't waste precious time with a GP or dialling 111.

I was home alone when I had my recent medical episode. I called my son who called an ambulance (he feared I’d had a stroke), but he also hopped into his car and drove the 30 minutes to my house. The ambulance service initially gave him a 5 hour wait time, reduced to between 2/3 hours when he explained it might be a stroke (difficult for both him and the call handler because he wasn’t with me to describe my symptoms). Fearing the wait for an ambulance was too long my son drove me to the hospital himself. Because I was not brought in by ambulance I was admitted to an A&E cubicle (they allowed my husband to stay with me because I was too confused to be left alone) but then left me to wait until my husband reminded the staff that I was a query stroke patient and might be in need of a urgent treatment. He said that prompted a very quick response then.

They do use a slightly different triage system in some parts of the country but the timescales are government mandated. Most trusts are moving over to our system gradually but, as with all things, change costs money.

I love a good detective novel generally but occasionally read historical fiction although I prefer 1920's -30s rather than anything older. I have read and enjoyed all the Georgette Heyer books.

Thanks LtEve for your explanations which I assume are relevant for the whole of the UK.

Yes, I could have said I was breathless because I was through pain and anxiety.

I don't know those books, they sound interesting although I am more into historical novels.

Callistemon21

^It's nothing to do with how 'good' the ambulance service is. When you have double the number of active jobs to ambulances/RRV's there is nothing you can do. Dispatchers do not have a magic wand.^
So who decides that the tenth 999 call in a day is valid but an elderly woman rapped in a car turned on its roof with possible serious injuries is not LtEve?

btw were you a Lt in the Forces?

Calls are triaged by a series of questions written by a panel of highly qualified medical professionals, emergency department consultants etc to arrive at a priority by ruling out life threatening conditions, they arrive at either a Cat 4 which covers non injury falls and social issues, Cat 3 which is a 2 hour response time and covers falls with injuries, RTC's with conscious patients with no catastrophic bleeding plus lots of other conditions, Cat 2 which is the heart attacks, sepsis, strokes etc which is an 18 minute response time or a cat 1 which is the cardiac arrests, choking, actively fitting patients which get a 7 minute response time. This is not an exhaustive list of conditions but an overview.

Obviously it will always be open to mistakes, either the person doesn't give the right information or they fake information (say they have chest pain or are struggling to breath when they're not) but the call handler can only go on what they are told.
Also if they haven't got a resource available because they're already on jobs then there is nothing they can do but put out a general broadcast for someone to clear ASAP. There is nothing more demoralising than hearing the desperate calls for a crew when you're stuck waiting outside a hospital or on a lower priority job that you can't just walk out of. There are just not enough ambulances.

By the way, LtEve is a nod to the heroine of one of my favourite series of books written by J D Robb, the Eve Dallas books set in 2050 New York. I'm a big reader and this seemed like a good choice when thinking of a user name which was fairly anonymous.

i have seen this on tv shows, it is not just ambulances, some firebrigade stations have the same problem, they have to answer any emergency and as someone said they can't block the number, they can call the police but i don't think there is much they can do other than warn them or charge them (but it would only be a fine). i don't understand why people do this.

BlueBelle

They have to answer which ever call comes in first callistermon it’s not about deciding who needs what most so if they drive 4 miles to a crank call while a genuine person is trapped in a car that is not anyones fault but the crank caller

But something does need to be done urgently to stop this continuing
Maybe Lt stands for little Eve

They don't here.

There is a triage system.
When I lay on the floor with a broken limb I was triaged on the phone. If I had been having a heart attack or stroke I would have been prioritised. As it was, they arrived more quickly than the 3 hours i was promised - but then the paramedics had to stay with me in the hospital corridor (even though I told them they could go, I'd be ok) before I saw a doctor briefly for an assessment, then they were allowed to go.

Perhaps Lt means little but to me Lt means Lieutenant, LtCdr is Lietenant Commander etc.

2 of my neighbours constantly phone for ambulances.
I've told them until I'm blue in the face that a high temperature isn't a medical emergency, but they treat it as if it is their own personal advice line.

They have to answer which ever call comes in first callistermon it’s not about deciding who needs what most so if they drive 4 miles to a crank call while a genuine person is trapped in a car that is not anyones fault but the crank caller

But something does need to be done urgently to stop this continuing
Maybe Lt stands for little Eve

trapped, sorry

It's nothing to do with how 'good' the ambulance service is. When you have double the number of active jobs to ambulances/RRV's there is nothing you can do. Dispatchers do not have a magic wand.
So who decides that the tenth 999 call in a day is valid but an elderly woman rapped in a car turned on its roof with possible serious injuries is not LtEve?

btw were you a Lt in the Forces?

sharon103

I agree BlueBelle. I watch the 999 and Ambulance programmes as well. Any medical programmes I find interesting.
I don't know if it's true but I've heard it costs £200 a time for an ambulance to come out.
I really don't know what the answer is.
It's the same with the A&E programmes I watch, I've thought in some cases a local doctor could have dealt with that surely but there again people can't get an appointment to see a doctor these days so it's a vicious circle.

About 6 years ago the cost of a double manned ambulance going out to a patient was around £275, if we took them to hospital it was around £350. With the price of diesel at the moment the cost will be skyrocketing now.

Callistemon21

BlueBelle

* Callistemon* of course she does but if she rings 999 she has to have a response they and I know it’s the wrong service but can do nothing different

You must have a very good ambulance service where you live, Bluebelle - I heard of an elderly woman who had an RTA not far from here, turned her car over and others went to help but no fire engine, no ambulance arrived. Others managed to get her out carefully and after 4 hours of waiting her family took her to hospital.

It's nothing to do with how 'good' the ambulance service is. When you have double the number of active jobs to ambulances/RRV's there is nothing you can do. Dispatchers do not have a magic wand.

I did watch a TV program dealing with ambulance calls and it seemed that some people couldn’t cope with the money they received from the government every month, spending it on as much as they could drink. It was said on the program that they queue up for the moment when the money comes through into their bank account. This money used to be paid into their landlord’s account for their rent but the government changed the system giving the tenant command over the money. If these people cannot deal with benefits and I am not talking about those that can, maybe these people should be put on the ‘old’ system.

There's often a link between alcohol/ drug addiction and mental health issues. Addicts are often self medicating with drugs or alcohol and sadly end up with serious health problems as well as the under lying mental health problem. Yes, there are medicines that can help with controlling the symptoms of mental health illnesses but rarely are they a cure . Although we have progressed so far in treating diseases and injuries, sadly we haven't made little progress when it comes to treating mental health illnesses, there is still a huge stigma attached to it and because of the behaviours associated with mental illness, sufferers often end up alienated from their friends and family and unsupported. I'm sure this is why they become such a problem for the ambulance/A&E/GP services. No solutions I'm afraid, I wish I had!

You’re quite right Sharon. I have had depression for upwards of 40 years and medication and that ability to act which you mention make me appear perfectly ‘normal’. You wouldn’t know. There are days when the black dog makes his presence keenly felt though. I have always been very open about my condition, which will never be cured, as I feel that’s the only way for people to accept that you can have mental health issues without appearing to be somehow peculiar. I have been lucky never to encounter any prejudice but I know that stigma still exists, maybe more amongst people older than I am (71). I consider myself very fortunate not to suffer from a more serious mental health condition which manifests itself very obviously in the sufferer and causes the sort of problems referred to above and makes holding down a job and maintaining relationships nigh on impossible. I’m ok with pills - those poor people need so much more and its provision is patchy in the extreme.

Sago

I called an ambulance pre Covid for my mother who was 90 at the time.
I was told by her GP practice to dial 999.
This was a Tuesday morning, I was told the wait could be 2-3 hours, I drove my mother to A&E, she was seen 8 hours later, this was because she hadn’t arrived by ambulance.
When she was seen I was criticised for not calling an ambulance.

Many people think that to arrive in A&E by ambulance is a guarantee to be seen sooner. This simply isn’t true! Why do you think there are so many ambulances queuing outside on a daily basis?

People are seen on the basis of how sick they are, at least that is what is supposed to happen, depending on how competent the triage nurses are.

Every year we are told that extra amounts of money are going to be pumped into improving mental health services, but nothing ever changes. The amount of people who phone 111 because they have been unable to contact their own mental health services is ridiculous!

sharon103 I hope my post didn’t read as dismissing or judging mental health problems. It wasn’t intended in that way. Im aware of the devastating impact of mental health on the sufferer and their loved ones

Anniebach

Many are judgemental and intolerant when it comes to mental
illnesses

You're right Annie and many people are having to wait weeks for counselling.

Quoting Iam64.

Iam64 Wed 09-Mar-22 11:17:27
‘Mental health problems ‘ has become a phrase used too often. People with schizophrenia, psychotic episodes, or significant depression /anxiety have treatable mental health problems.

Treatable not curable though.
My brother-in-laws brother who lived just up the road from me had paranoid schizophrenia for 40 years and was on medication.
He lived with his mum and dad. Dad died and mum died just a few years ago leaving him on his own. Psychiatrist discharged him at that time just when he needed that support the most.
He got worse and my sister phoned to tell them as she was concerned and they changed his medication.
On the new tablets he was threatening to end his life.
He seemed better, not cured on his old tablets but they refused to change the medication back again.
He took an overdose and died.
Anxiety and depression is treatable with medication but again not always cured. People live for years with these illnesses even on medication but as there's a stigma with the subject they keep it all to themselves and cope as best they can and tell people they're ok. They're very good actors. I know from experience and of others.
Most doctors need educating more on mental health illnesses. They haven't a clue some of them.
I always say, no one knows what it's like unless you've been there.

BlueBelle

* Callistemon* of course she does but if she rings 999 she has to have a response they and I know it’s the wrong service but can do nothing different

You must have a very good ambulance service where you live, Bluebelle - I heard of an elderly woman who had an RTA not far from here, turned her car over and others went to help but no fire engine, no ambulance arrived. Others managed to get her out carefully and after 4 hours of waiting her family took her to hospital.

I agree BlueBelle. I watch the 999 and Ambulance programmes as well. Any medical programmes I find interesting.
I don't know if it's true but I've heard it costs £200 a time for an ambulance to come out.
I really don't know what the answer is.
It's the same with the A&E programmes I watch, I've thought in some cases a local doctor could have dealt with that surely but there again people can't get an appointment to see a doctor these days so it's a vicious circle.

* Callistemon* of course she does but if she rings 999 she has to have a response they and I know it’s the wrong service but can do nothing different