Thinking about people and NHS in general

Rather like those who turn up at A&E because they tripped and bloodied their knee, or have a bad headache ... or are drunk. However, might your neighbour be in the early stages of dementia? I'm not sure how that could be dealt with, especially if that person lives alone unless the phone number is marked when first calling the ambulance service that the caller may have dementia.

GreenGran78

Slightly off subject, but I read, recently that defibrillators are sometimes donated to places such as pensiones' clubs, village halls, etc, and often not registered. The ambulance service can check online where the nearest machine is, tell the 999 caller, and it can be used before they get there, sometimes saving a life.
If the emergency services haven't been told about the position of new machines it could be fatal for someone having a heart attack.

A heart attack isn't the same as cardiac arrest. A heart attack is caused by a a circulatory problem, so the blood vessel needs unblocking. A defibrillator won't do that. If you think somebody is having a heart attack, please get them to hospital as quickly as possible.

icanhandthemback

At the moment, the Fire Stations can also send people with defibrillators if there is suspicion of a heart attack, etc. I would have thought that there could be a system of having volunteer/care workers who could attend to people who are known to have mental health problems. They could then alert the ambulance service if there was a bigger issue that needed a paramedic. A bit like the Samaritans with transport. Obviously this would need funding but it would take the pressure off the Ambulance Service who need to give life and death service. We also need more ambulances, paramedics and space in A&E to take people. My mother has sat outside a hospital in an ambulance for hours before she could get moved into the corridor of A&E. The ambulance staff couldn't leave her until she was "handed over" formally so for 4 hours that ambulance was out of action. That is completely ridiculous.

A defibrillator wouldn't have done me any good. I was having a heart attack, not a cardiac arrest. I needed to be in hospital quickly and have a stent inserted. In a way, I was lucky because I had a heart attack in Cambridge. An ambulance arrived within minutes and rather than being taken to hospital for assessment, the paramedics examined me, confirmed I was having a heart attack and blue lighted me directly to the Royal Papworth Hospital. While I was in the ambulance I was given oxygen and 300mg aspirin (the best thing you can do if you think somebody is having a heart attack) and was partially undressed in readiness for the op. When we arrived at hospital, the ambulance reversed into the cath lab entrance and I was treated. Sorry, but no GP or fire officers with defibrillators could have done that, nor could wasting time with triaging. There was no messing about, which resulted in a successful outcome.

Slightly off subject, but I read, recently that defibrillators are sometimes donated to places such as pensiones' clubs, village halls, etc, and often not registered. The ambulance service can check online where the nearest machine is, tell the 999 caller, and it can be used before they get there, sometimes saving a life.
If the emergency services haven't been told about the position of new machines it could be fatal for someone having a heart attack.

aonk

About 3 years ago a 90 year old lady who was a distant relative of my DH sadly died. She had called an ambulance many times saying she had chest pains and was eventually taken to A and E. She was very rude to the consultant there and he arranged to have her sectioned. It was a terrible time but she was very difficult indeed.

Perhaps she had dementia?

Anything free is not valued by some people. I have just paid over £200 for Physio as I don’t want to be the 6 000 002nd person on a waiting list. I have followed the exercise regime to the letter - sadly I am now in the NHS system as the problem is too severe.

Never even thought of calling an ambulance when the injury occurred - I was brought up to “shut up and get on with it”. Frequent flyers are a d##n pain in the butt, but may have other issues, they do love all the attention though, I’ve noticed.

About 3 years ago a 90 year old lady who was a distant relative of my DH sadly died. She had called an ambulance many times saying she had chest pains and was eventually taken to A and E. She was very rude to the consultant there and he arranged to have her sectioned. It was a terrible time but she was very difficult indeed.

I have hardly ever called an ambulance until about two years ago….. my husband falls 2-3 times a day…he’s 13 st and 76 and disabled.I’m 71 … weigh 9.5 st and I would have to pick him off floor . He cannot help himself at all…. he’s started to suffer from memory problems! Last year was horrendous…and then in May I was picking him off the floor for the third time that morning ….and I had my third stroke ( small)..thankfully! He was on floor in bedroom ranting and raving at me … I was stroking out on landing . I had left my mobile downstairs and it took me 25 mins if critical time to get to it with my husband telling me to ‘stop mucking about’. I called ambulance …they were there in 15 mins .. luckily my back door / gate was open. When they appeared one went to sort hubby out the other saw to me… my daughter turned up just after the ambulance !
I was sent to a stroke ward in a town 20 miles away my husband sent to local hospital…because he’s unable to look after himself. I was told EMPHATICALLY never to attempt ti lift him in future . Of course I have done because I think if he’s not injured then im wasting there time. He’s fallen twice this week… I’ve picked him up! Us oldies worry about calling 999 for no reason.
Although it’s getting increasingly impossible. The ambulance will be at my house 2/3 times a week if I called them every time he fell. Darent tell my kids I pick him off floor. They’d go mad at me.

Saga I had the opposite experience. DH at a hospital for blood test two days prior to his regular chemo session. His breathing was awful but we thought it was from chemo. Hemotology unit on seeing him said he needed looking at and they called an ambulance for us. Yes hospital called an ambulance as they only had a minor injuries unit and couldn't deal with breathing issue. I had a phone call from the Ambulance Service querying why they were called when we were in a hospital! Explained and they attended carried out tests, excellent service. Devision made DH had to go to A & E in major hospital but if Ambulance took him he would be at end of queue as he would be considered "safe" with paramedics looking after him. If I took DH, along with printouts of tests etc I would be treated much quicker. I drove and we were taken within 20 mins. Suppose we freed up ambulance that had travelled 20 miles to first hospital and had they taken us to A & E would have another 12 miles added a return journey of 32 miles. When people phone 999 ambulances are not on their door step sitting waiting for work. People should remember that.

I live in Devon, on Dartmoor, we have had to call 999 a few times for an ongoing condition which causes extreme chest pain and blackouts. Also for my Father in Law who is 91.

We have a chap from the next village, with First Aid qualifications (his words), who appears on a motorbike before an ambulance reaches us. No issues.

My Mum lived in a large town in Gloucestershire, and we frequently had a 6-8 hour wait for paramedics. Even when she was on the floor and I couldn't raise her.

However, I am forever thankful for all the call handlers who stop you panicking, and ambulance crews who are kind and efficient...let alone our chap on a motorbike xx

FannyCornforth

BlueBelle Your neighbour has an ambulance come to her house up to ten times a day!?

Surely the ambulance service should have something in place to deal with her differently?
She is going to be costing a fortune, as well as putting others at great risk.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Every time an ambulance is called and attends, it costs the NHS £250 approx.

An emergency service cannot ethically block a number - after all the next call from that person might be a legitimate emergency.

They can or should be able to either send a bill for the time the medical team or police took to answer a call that proved unnecessary, or even be able to get the police to fine the person for wasting emergency services* time.

There is surely something sadly wrong with the system if a mentally ill person can repeatedlly call upon services she does not need, and nothing is done to ensure that this poor person gets the care and treatment she obviously does need.

My son is a call handler for the police. They too have regular 999 users. Another thing is young people saying they can't get home from a night out. They mention feeling suicidal and the police are obliged to find them and take them home.

not everyone has someone who can help, ie. take them to hospital

and my experience , once, phoning 111, the person answering insisted it was ambulance or nothing! no opportunity to speak with a doctor..

We have responders in cars that go first unless heart attack, etc to save the ambulances. They are very good and I'm sure it can save time with the time wasters.
We also have a number to call with nurses on the line for you to speak to. I had to call one night as I passed out with a pain in my side and they were able to tell me by my symptoms it sounded like I was passing a kidney stone and they were correct. It saved me wasting an ambulance.

More government spending on mental health services.

BlueBelle

This is a bit of a follow on from the lady who felt she couldn’t get a Gp appointment

GPs although not back to normal are still fully working . 111 is working and is a very good filter 999 is working we might be in a bit of a pickle but it’s all still there you just have to be a bit insistent, and help ourselves too if you cant get a GP keep trying If an ambulance will take too long , use a friend/ neighbour/ colleague, take a taxi We Brits don’t like asking for help and I m counting me in that too we are too stiff upper lip sometimes for our own good then have a good old moan that no one helps

But

something that has bugged my brain for a while is something radical MUST be done about multiple time ambulance callers I have a neighbour obviously mentally unwell although perfectly ok to talk to who rings the ambulance numerous times a day they can be there ten or more times in a day
I have watched the 999 TV programmes and sometimes half the day is taken up with callers who call 9/10/15 times a day
This is clogging up the system dreadfully and using the ambulances ( and the police) unnecessarily and leaving very ill people out on a limb

What’s the answer to this one ! There must be an answer do other countries have this problem ?
What do you think ?

What people don't also realise is that, every time an ambulance is called, the patient's GP surgery is billed for it.

Re Bluebells comments about her neighbour calling ambulance up to ten times a day. I’m the early hours of Tuesday morning I was called out to my mothers care home as she had fallen. They covered her up and put a pillow under her head but kept her on the floor. She stayed there from 2.15 am until an ambulance arrived at 8.00 am. A long time for a 102 year old. The paramedics were actually very annoyed especially as a qualified nurse at the hone had checked her over and said she hadn’t broken anything. She was taken into hospital where I remained with her until 3.30 pm she had to have blood tests as the dr ssid lying in the floor such a long time causes toxins in the blood. A CT scan was also arranged. My point is that someone constantly calling for the ambulance service to attend prevents them attending others. Someone needs to speak to this person and explain. I guess if she was required to pay it May soon stop. Incidentally I spoke with the regional manager of the care home to ask why my mother lay on the floor for several hours. I was told it’s their policy and unless a dr agrees to allow them to be put on top of their bed nothing they can do. I do think a bit of common sense would help in a situation like this but of course the culture of suing is their first thought.

I have just spent 8 days in hospital following a knee replacement and the care I have received was AMAZING WITH BELLS ON! From the surgeon to the doctors, nurses, therapists, cleaners and catering staff. So kind, caring and professional. 95% were immigrant workers who quite frankly we couldn’t survive without. However on my day of discharge I was told I’d be going home that day and it too 9+ hours for the hospital pharmacy to send my 2 items. This is an area that needs seriously looking at as it just blocks the turnover of beds. A discharge lounge is not the answer when orthopaedic patients are still in quite a lot of pain and discomfort. This was an outrageous and cruel treatment of patients.

Because the NHS is free at the point of use it gets abused. The number of hospital and GP non attendances for appointments is horrendous and people attending A & E with minor ailments because they’ve no simple painkillers etc. in the house.

Times I have been taken to hospital by ambulance is when my gp was so worried about my condition she called the ambulance to the surgery. Other times I’ve been filtered through 111 and the ambulance has arrived very quickly

At the moment, the Fire Stations can also send people with defibrillators if there is suspicion of a heart attack, etc. I would have thought that there could be a system of having volunteer/care workers who could attend to people who are known to have mental health problems. They could then alert the ambulance service if there was a bigger issue that needed a paramedic. A bit like the Samaritans with transport. Obviously this would need funding but it would take the pressure off the Ambulance Service who need to give life and death service. We also need more ambulances, paramedics and space in A&E to take people. My mother has sat outside a hospital in an ambulance for hours before she could get moved into the corridor of A&E. The ambulance staff couldn't leave her until she was "handed over" formally so for 4 hours that ambulance was out of action. That is completely ridiculous.

The new hospital for my area has pleaded with people not to attend the A&E unless absolutely necessary as they are so busy. Also, having built this new hospital and closing some of the others, the roads from where I live are often flooded and unpassable. They are also, in some parts, narrow with no possible overtaking.

I remember apologising to one paramedic in case I'd called them out unnecessarily and he said "Don't worry, with what your husband's got he's an absolute priority" He was suffering from Multiple Myeloma and Heart Failure. It was pre Covid and we were always very lucky with ambulances, a couple of times I hardly had time to put the phone down before they were on the doorstep!

Many years ago I was sitting in A&E with a sprained ankle when a couple came in with a screaming toddler who had been scalded. They were closely followed by the ambulancemen that they had decided not to wait for. The ambulancemen were furious because they could have been treating the child on the way into hospital instead of which she had been bundled into a car, probably risking infection and permanent scarring.

Lemsip, programmes like A and E and the police interceptors show demonstrate the nonsense our first responders deal with all the time. People hurling abuse, behaving in a provocative way obviously looking for a fight. I confess to almost cheering when a huge German shepherd dog was brought out to menace one idiot. Great restraint by the young officers (and the dog)