Another baby killed

Serious dog licensing is required, been saying that for years. Dog ownership has all been far too casual, we have 67 million people in a very small country and that means too many dogs for the amount of space we have.

Germanshepherdsmum

I know, Coastpath. It's always the dog's fault and it's pts before the true facts are known. If children aren't brought up around pets and taught how to interact with them safely and respectfully it's an accident waiting to happen. However well trained a dog is, it has only one way of defending itself if attacked.

If children aren't brought up around pets and taught how to interact with them safely and respectfully it's an accident waiting to happen. - that is only necessary because dog-lovers choose to own dogs. It is not a given - like teaching a child to put a coat on when it is raining. Rain is a natural phenomenon - owning a dog is a choice.

It is entirely the other way around. Children would not need to be taught to interact with dogs if people did not choose to own them - the onus is on the dog owners to make their animals safe around people of all sizes. If you choose to own a dog, it is not the responsibility of anybody else to train their children or themselves to deal with it.

The responsibility is the dog owner's alone because they have chosen to get one. No-one else should have to alter their lives one jot to suit them.

Iam64

I’m afraid the Dangerous Dogs act isn’t fir for purpose.
The point has been well made on this thread that people are responsible when dogs attack. There are too many people who have no idea about the kind of care, time, effort and energy that goes into helping a pup grow into the best dog it can be. Children should never be left alone with any dog.
Responsible owners don’t post daft photographs or videos of their toddler lying on the dog, posing with its face next to the dog, tormenting the dog .

Absolutely! Too many people treat the dogs as a novelty, an accessory or a toy. And, I repeat again, you also need to educate children - whether you yourself have a dog or not - to respect all animals and how to behave around them.
And I hope all those flinging statistics around about dog attacks show the same levels of concern for the far greater number of children who are killed, maimed or abused on a daily basis by humans - very often the same humans who ought to be protecting them.

Someone said up thread something along the lines of 'dog haters on here. You know who you are'. Like we are criminals lurking in the darkness who should be ashamed. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

GSM again a misunderstanding, I was talking of not hearing of an owner who either joined the attack or encouraged it by egging the dog on.

At the point the attack is made, only the dog takes part and only the dog is responsible. If this propensity to attack is in the dog, no matter how much training and socialisation it has will remove it. Training may control it, but not remove it.

It is because of the propensity to attack animals or humans that there should be strict controls on who owns dogs and what type of dog they own.

Why when I go for a walk, do I have to stop and stand still when a dog goes by because I do not know how well the dog has been trained and how competent the owner is?

At least by insisting that all dog owners have an approved training and only own a dog breed deemed suitable for the house it will lives in and the family circumstances, only then I can and many of the population of my village risk walking out on public footpaths without having to be cautious of any dog that comes near them..

X posted there with GSM - we agree on this

Callistemon, thanks for introducing the comparison with some men, who pose significant risks to women and children. I can’t imagine better male role models than my dad, mr i and others in my family/friendship group. Back to my working life, I met scary men who chose to own scary dogs.

MOnica, I understand where you are coming from but IMO On line courses - I honestly don’t see that helping. Too easy to subvert. I agree that breeders have the responsibility of assessing the suitability of people looking to buy a pup/dog from them. Responsible breeders already do this. I needed a reference and 2 hour interview, including my existing dog and mr i when I bought a 10 month old pup. She wasn’t advertised I was lucky to be recommended. The breeder my current youngster came from doesn’t advertise either. Their pups all go to previous owners, or people with a strong recommendation.
The problem isn’t responsible breeders or owners, this thread confirms that.

I wish it could be enforced that all dog owners attend Group training courses run by properly qualified, experienced trainers . The kennel club good citizen training groups work towards bronze, silver and gold obedience training certificates. Too many people believe they know it all from watching you tube. A puppy socialisation course of 6 weeks only teaches the pup to run wild with other pups. Owners should be willing to commit to months (or in my case, years) of good training to help their dog be the best it can be.

I do believe there are a small number of dogs with unsound temperament. Usually it’s poor breeding and adverse life experience. It’s also not rocket science to spot these dogs - well it isn’t for experienced trainers.

Oit = Not

Yes, there needs to be more legislation and more responsibility.
Not everyone is suitable to be a dog owner.
Oit all dogs are suitable as family pets; some are working dog breeds and need to be working, not confined to flats.
Nor are some cats.

However, it's rather extreme to think that no-one should have a dog as a pet because some could become dangerous.
It's like saying that men should not marry (or even exist) or have children because some are paedophiles, wife-beaters or murderers.

My comment that it's the dog's fault was ironic MOnica. You obviously didn't pick up on that.

I don't know how you can say that you have yet to hear of an owner who was responsible for an attack. Not long ago a child was killed by a dog whose owner had left it alone with the child. We don't know how the child behaved but wouldn't you say the owner was culpable for having left the child alone with the dog?

It is a parent's duty to teach their children how to behave around animals, whether they have them in the home or not, and to restrain them if they try to lunge at a dog.

In the situation which you unfortunately experienced, the owner was clearly incapable of handling the dogs and it's a good example of an irresponsible owner who had not trained and socialised the dogs and was not physically strong enough to control them, not that much control should have been needed with properly trained and socialised dogs. I could easily walk two properly trained and socialised German shepherds without need for them to be muzzled. My dog is muzzled when she goes to the vets because that's a sensible precaution when someone is going to physically interfere with them, but not otherwise. If a dog has to be muzzled on a routine walk that's not a good sign.

Very brave of you Monica to say on this thread that it's the dog's fault! Yes, why should parents have to teach their children how to treat a creature in case it attacks them?

Yes it is always the dogs fault, because it has not been properly trained, but I have yet to hear of an owner who was responsible for the actual attack at the time.

Why should every parent have to keep pets so that their children can learn how to act around dogs. Would you have a dog in every childs' home, no matter whether it is suitable or not, whether the family can afford it? That really taking it too far.

What about the adults attacked by dogs? I was attacked by two, thankfully, muzzled dogs, a sure sign that they were not safe in public. I was walking beside a stream on a narrow public footpath. When I saw these two fierce dogs, and their owner, who was clearly having difficulty controling them. I stood absolutely still and quiet. The path was too narrow to move out of reach. When the dogs reached me, both leapt up at me, the snout and muzzle of one hit my arm very hard and I had a bad bruise on my arm for weeks and weeks before it finally faded. Had the dogs not been muzzled I would, not could, but would, have been seriously mauled.

This is why I believe that all potential dog owners should have to get a licence based on an online course and no one, commercially or privately should be allowed to sell/give a dog to anyone until the house has been assessed whether it is suitable for the type of dog wanted. Rescue sites, all, assess the potential owners and the dog before allowing anyone to have one. So I cannot see any problem if that was made officisl.

Of course some people will try and subvert the rules, but doing so should be made a criminal offence. If a dog attacks someone who has subverted the rules they should receive a substantial prison sentence, as should the person who supplied the dog, if they too subverted the rules.

Chestnut - your links are beyond tragic - and all so unnecessary. It is just awful; unbearable.

I’ve just read a two year old boy has been seriously injured by two out of control dogs! These poor children are being let down by these people that have no control of their dogs. I’m a dog lover but something really does need to be done.

Cats, like dogs come in various sizes, types and temperament, I've had so many over the years as my parents did before me and you can tell from a kitten who is going to be a hearth cat and who isn't, they are all individuals and the downside is their hunting methods. As a child I had many scratches due to over enthusiastic interaction and soon learnt to be careful and leave a grumpy cat alone. You're wrong, they can be (not all of course) every bit as affectionate as a dog, ours enjoys our company and often comes for a walk with us up to the end of our Paddock and back, along with our Exmoor Pony and our Cocker making us feel like Dr Doolittle. But I feel affection for all animals so I guess I'm biased.

I am afraid you are in denial argymargy maimed for life is as bad or worse than killed
2 babies killed in this month only so a third of the way to your entire number in just three weeks !!!

I’m afraid the Dangerous Dogs act isn’t fir for purpose.
The point has been well made on this thread that people are responsible when dogs attack. There are too many people who have no idea about the kind of care, time, effort and energy that goes into helping a pup grow into the best dog it can be. Children should never be left alone with any dog.
Responsible owners don’t post daft photographs or videos of their toddler lying on the dog, posing with its face next to the dog, tormenting the dog .

I agree too Chestnut.

More legislation and licensing for owners, breeders and the selling of dogs in any form. I believe all sensible dog owners would welcome this.

BlueBelle

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-60640561
I don’t remember reading about this three weeks ago but it appeared in the BBC newsfeed today and appears to be yet another baby killed it seems to be so regularly happening there’s just got to be something done

It's not regularly happening @BlueBelle. There are less than 6 fatalities per year from dogs (see link earlier in thread). We hear about them because they are awful but fatalities are rare. Bites and attacks are another matter.

When are they going to have some legislations and licencing for dogs?

I agree that it is needed, Chestnut

I know, Coastpath. It's always the dog's fault and it's pts before the true facts are known. If children aren't brought up around pets and taught how to interact with them safely and respectfully it's an accident waiting to happen. However well trained a dog is, it has only one way of defending itself if attacked.

Breaking news:

An 8 year old boy has serious facial injuries in Cannock, also a 6 year old girl and a woman injured:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-60904890

A 2 year old boy fighting for life in Worcestershire (not dangerous dog breeds):
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10660591/Boy-two-fights-life-hospital-attacked-two-dogs.html

These attacks are happening more and more. We've now got four children dead or seriously injured which have just made the headlines. There are far too many dogs and no controls in place. When are they going to have some legislations and licencing for dogs?

I feel so sorry for the children and their families in these case.

I also remember a documentary I saw on TV a couple of years ago about people who walk their dogs in a park in London. One man with a very small son had a huge dog. The film followed the family back to their tiny flat where the small boy lifted the dog's ear and repeatedly blew a shrill whistle right into the dog's ear. The father didn't intervene and the poor dog just had no choice but to put up with it. It was cruel and painful to watch.

Obviously tragic accidents do happen, but small children around dogs need as much training and control as dogs do generally.

My small terrier was raised alongside 4 small children and is happy and gentle with them, but just occasionally a child hares up to her in the street and immediately thrust a hand out or, one one occasion tries to pick her up. I intervene, but if I didn't and the dog bit who would be at fault?

Luckygirl3

I have no problem with dogs that are under control and whose owners understand that they have a duty not to allow them to annoy others - and who understand that what they find cute, others do not - e.g. jumping up, slobbering, yapping at you etc. But there are such a large number of owners who do not fall into that category.

Sadly there are many many owners who leave them to roam about, or who watch them being a nuisance and do nothing, and who regard their dogs as a status symbol - a macho accessory. And, as we know, there are those who acquire particularly dangerous breeds and people (usually small ones) get hurt or killed.

I am not an animal lover, in the sense that I have no wish to have them in my house, but I am in the sense that I think we should be sure that what we do to make these animals into pets and companions is not at too high a price for their well-being. I have respect for the animal kingdom and feel no desire to make any animal be something that it is not for my own pleasure.

I am not vegan - but I do not eat red meat.

So you agree that it is the fault of irresponsible dog owners?

Cats are the wildest of "domesticated" animals. They are out and about killing all the time - as is only right - that is their nature. They come "home" because food and warmth are freely available. Nobody really owns a cat.
So should these creatures ever have been domesticated? What is the point of them? It's not right that there should be such a huge proliferation of cats out and about killing all the time, it really isn't.
Roaming and defecating in other people's gardens too.

And again the one I spoke of yesterday sounds as if it’s a random attack and not the family dog

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-60904890