What happened to women's liberation?

It takes two salaries nowadays to run a home.
Women are expected to return to work much earlier after having a child/children; if they do not their job will very likely be gone.
There are not so many concessions for women wanting to work part-time.
Child care is phenomenally expensive, and many grandparents are still working themselves.
Most men do share the responsibilities, but frequently ( not always), they earn the higher salary so their job is prioritised.
I had four years away from work for childcare, and they were a great struggle as our income more than halved, then I worked for forty years full-time. Today I would have to return after maternity leave.
I have the greatest sympathy for young families today juggling careers and childcare.
Because of women's Lib many women are better educated and want and enjoy their career, but the necessary support is a long way behind.

"I think we accepted that we wouldn't have the holidays abroad, large houses, whilst the children were young."

We cannot generalize

My kids are young and I do not expect all those things, if they happen awesome. If not, I am grateful for what I have

We both worked full time and our children went to childminders and nursery (early 1970s). DH and I shared all the household chores, as we still do. We didn't have any family nearby. Later on his career took him away for several weeks a year and then mine did, but the children had left home by then. Both of our children work full time and our grandchildren have been in nursery from a few months old. Everybody seems to be reasonably happy and well-adjusted. ?
I think there are different ways of doing things and as long as everyone is happy that is fine.

Back in the 80s when my children were born, we made the decision that I would be a stay at home mum until the youngest started school. So, when they were 5,7 and 9 I went back to work. Jobs where I was home in time for school finishing and school holidays off. When I was a stay at home mum I did childminding and secretarial work when the youngest was at Playgroup. Nowadays, my elder son and his partner juggle childcare and occasionally have a part time Nanny. He has turned down work with ridiculously long hours or overseas, as he says his family come first. His dad (my OH) did work overseas a lot and was abroad for weeks at a time. Son says he isn’t prepared to do that.

Women have to earn an income because expectations are different. Couples don’t even set up home together till they’ve got everything they want, including a car each. They all expect all the mod cons and holidays abroad. And why not, but of course you both need to work and have a well paid job too. Women want to make use of their qualifications and rightly so.

NotTooOld, I don’t know where in the U.K. you are, but anywhere around here, house prices are way less affordable relative to salaries, than they were when we bought our house in 1977.

It was still possible then to buy a modest family home on one reasonable salary.
It simply isn’t any more. Not anywhere around here, anyway.

It felt normal for me to work full-time. My grandmother had a full-time job, as did my mother. My mother worked 9-6, supporting a disabled husband, bringing up two children, with no car, washing machine or central heating. Now that was hard.

I had 2 children by the time I was 21. I’d left school at 15 with no qualifications. My relationship broke down when the children were small and I lived on benefits. I went back into education and got a degree and a teaching qualification. All funded by government grants. This would be impossible for the younger generation. I worked until I was 66 in a demanding but fulfilling career. No progressing to management, but lots of trade union work. Another area that has suffered from punitive government acts. It is so much harder for women to escape the poverty trap these days.

There are loads of different views on here that have really given me food for thought. It's been good and an eye opener to read about everyone's different stories.

Witzend

*NotTooOld*, I don’t know where in the U.K. you are, but anywhere around here, house prices are way less affordable relative to salaries, than they were when we bought our house in 1977.

It was still possible then to buy a modest family home on one reasonable salary.
It simply isn’t any more. Not anywhere around here, anyway.

This is the issue. In many many areas, it's nigh on impossible to buy a house on just one wage now.
And yes, maybe expectations were lower years ago, but does that mean we shouldn't want more for our children and grandchildren?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home mum if that's what you want (and can afford). It's a bloomin' hard job and I take my hat off to those who do it - because I couldn't have.

I don’t think I lost out at all. Those people that think they can do it all do. What’s wrong with division of labour. I loved those first years with my children, I’m more for equality than getting quotas, women are wonderful but so are men. Never felt less than any man, I think some women want to emasculate men. I wouldn’t want to be a young man or woman now, there’s pressure from every side, even how you look, cosmetic procedures etc.

Emasculating is a chauvinist and misogynistic term

"1. Deprive (a man) of his male role or identity.

"in his mind, her success emasculated him"

2. make (someone or something) weaker or less effective."

Your gender does not determine your skills or role.

If a man feels threatened by somebody else's success or skills, should examine why and improve, not tear them down

I feel very privileged to have been a stay at home mum. Many don't have that luxury now. It was hard work with 3 young children but I was my own boss and could organise my day myself.

I have a ten year old. I work part time and have done since we had her. Even if I worked full time we wouldn’t be able to buy a house locally. Both of us need to work to be able to afford to rent a modest home and run one car. The times we have holidayed abroad have been funded by my daughter’s grandparents as we certainly can’t afford it. We are both well educated and have professional qualifications but salaries haven’t increased in line with house prices. My public sector job didn’t have a pay rise in a decade and I took on a second job to cope with cost of living increases.

^ It was still possible then to buy a modest family home on one reasonable salary.^ As I remember it, the wife's wages or salary was not part of the equation. A mortgage was only granted based on the husband's income. It was hard for us because I worked part time, while DH had 2 jobs (Joiner & Musician) and only the day job was taken into account. We eventually solved the problem by buying a sub standard old house with a mortgage from the local Council, which required us to upgrade to an acceptable standard within 5 years, which we did, helped by a grant to create a proper bathroom to replace the toilet off the scullery.

We got there in the end, but it required that we spent every spare?? hour and weekends digging, building, installing, etc. When the DDs were a bit older they actually enjoyed helping to fill skips, put together, install and paint, the flat pack kitchen units and so on. The house that we rebuilt as a family home also allowed us to act as guarantors for their mortgages for their own flats when they went of to University.

I have been thinking along the same lines but for different reasons. I know several professional women who have chosen not to return to work after having children. Even when the children are long past needing any childcare. They prefer not to work but to live off their husbands (high) earnings. I sometimes wonder how far women have really come.

Daisymae
Very judgemental post

Whatever a couple decides to do is none of anybody's business

We, women, are truly our worst enemy

Hithere

Daisymae
Very judgemental post

Whatever a couple decides to do is none of anybody's business

We, women, are truly our worst enemy

We can’t do right for doing wrong

I always worked ,never had maternity leave .I couldn't imagine expecting my OH to "provide" for me and our children .
I'd feel like a parasite .
I found I was quite able to work,run a business and bring up children and still do all the things SAHM's do and maybe more. I do know I was lucky that I took my children to work with me butI had to be organised and time was never wasted ,running before breakfast,weigh training in the evenings when OH was home and I still managed hobbies and housework etc.
I still hate wasting time and make sure my days are productive ,I would have kept working for a lot longer if Covid hadn't lost us the business we started in 1976 .

Gosh I was a parasite

I sometimes sat on my but eating crisps whilst the children watched cbeebies. Wasting time is not a moral failing.

Galaxy

I sometimes sat on my but eating crisps whilst the children watched cbeebies. Wasting time is not a moral failing.

Galaxy - you and me both!

I was a parasite too Anniebach. I can't say it felt like it, with three small children, of which two had a medical condition that required stays in hospital and many, many hospital appointments. My husband worked long hours, including weekends and was 'on call' evenings and nights. I had no family around who would look after the children on a regular basis. I had no choice so I was a sahm for a few years and was glad to be so as I felt my children needed me at home. I did go back to work later but it had an impact on my career choices.

My husband didn't resent providing for us. We were and are a team. I do, even now I am retired, sometimes resent the opinion of other women, and it is always other women, who dismiss other women not in professional careers . I had a bit of this from the younger women where I worked who of course knew nothing of my circumstances and choices

You'd think after all these years, we'd now be able to respect each other's choices as women. As a few have already commented on this thread, we should be supporting each other and building one another up, not knocking each other down. Women truly are each other's harshest critics.

I do, even now I am retired, sometimes resent the opinion of other women, and it is always other women, who dismiss other women not in professional careers

That is one of the things that concerns me. I think that some young women feel that they ought to be out at work, partly because they feel bad about not contributing to the financial pot and partly because they feel judged..... and they fear getting "left behind" on the career ladder.

I suspect that most of that could be eliminated if making and home and caring for children were seen as on a par with a professional career.....of equal value.

Having to fight hard to stay on a par with men in the workplace, they do not want to lose any of the ground they have gained by taking time out for the important task of child-rearing.

I do not think that the women who fought for equality had in mind that, as we have progressed on that front, the role of being a mother would finish up downgraded.