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In the 2019 General Election the Conservatives got 44% of the vote, 56% of the seats in the House of Commons and 100% of the power - is this democracy?

(13 Posts)
Mollygo Sat 23-Apr-22 10:25:01

Chestnut

Just for the record, in the 2015 election UKIP had over 3 million votes and only 1 seat. SNP had less than 1.5 million votes and 56 seats. That really shows how wrong the system is.

Wow! Chestnut that makes a really clear point.
I often wonder why the supporters of the government not in power are keen on PR, but if and when that party achieves power, it does nothing about it.

Rameses Tue 19-Apr-22 19:05:20

There has never has been TRUE democracy in the UK, ever. Our voting system and our parliament remains medieval.

There are two main problems, one is that a referendum on the 'Alternative Vote' system was held in May 2011 (who remembers that I wonder?). The referendum concerned whether or not to replace the present "first-past-the-post" system with the "alternative vote" (AV) method. AV is not the best form of PR in my opinion. It is too complex.

The proposal to introduce AV was rejected by 67.9% of voters on a national turnout of 42.2%, a turnout not much better than that of local elections. I suspect that, because the vote ran in tandem with the local elections that year, only those who bothered to vote in those bothered with the AV vote.

Secondly, neither of the main parties have much interest in any alternative to the FPTP system as they are both power hungry and always lust for full control.

I agree that FPTP is unrepresentative and I feel it will get worse as we currently have a prime minister and government which does not respect convention (convention has always been important in a country with no written constitution). The system works just as long as governments show a high level of honesty and integrity. Once that is no longer respected, the voters become disconnected from and suspicious of politicians and an increasing number will not vote at all. That is also dangerous to democracy.

The current government is pushing through it's Elections Bill which will seek to erode the power of the Electoral Commision in the operation and undertaking of elections, further eroding democracy.

We are living in dangerous times and, unfortunately, many either can't see it or don't care.

Applegran Tue 19-Apr-22 18:44:17

Most other countries in Europe use some version of PR. It produces governments which more fairly represent the electorate. These governments take account of different views as they govern. PR isn't perfect! No system is perfect - so we should surely choose the best available system and I cannot see that First Past The Post can possibly be the best available one. We already use Proportional Representation in this country for regional elections. Here is a quote from the Electoral Reform Society:
The link between how popular a party is at the polling booth and how many seats they get in the House of Commons is often weak and unpredictable.
Millions of people can support one party and get a single MP, while a few hundred thousand people who support a different party can get ten times as many.

You can see much more on their web site. For me this is not about my political views - its about being more democratic and making our votes mean something.

Chestnut Tue 19-Apr-22 17:50:41

Just for the record, in the 2015 election UKIP had over 3 million votes and only 1 seat. SNP had less than 1.5 million votes and 56 seats. That really shows how wrong the system is.

Visgir1 Tue 19-Apr-22 17:32:06

Boundary changes will effect quite a few seats if that comes into play.

Tulpia Tue 19-Apr-22 15:49:02

Yes its democracy and far better than any alternative. With PR you end up being governed by a committee who get nothing achieved.

Keeleklogger Tue 19-Apr-22 15:46:32

How the 2019 election would have looked under PR

Region nameFirst Past the PostRegional List Proportional Representation Seat change
Conservative 365 288-77
Brexit Party 0 10+10
Labour 202 216. +14
Liberal. 11 70+59
Green Party 1 12 +11
SNP 48 28 -20
Plaid Cymru 4 4 0
DUP 8 6 +2
Sinn Féin 7 4 +3
SDLP 2 3 +1
Alliance 1 3 + 2
UUP 0 2 +2
Others 1 4 +3

Riverwalk Tue 19-Apr-22 15:11:40

With PR the 2015 general election would have given us something like 90 UKIP MPs.

Brexit has happened but the Brexity-types and Far Right haven't gone away - be careful what you wish for.

ayse Tue 19-Apr-22 15:06:26

I agree we should have PR. The NZ system seems to work well. FPTP means that huge numbers of the population’s views are not represented. I also believe that a coalition government can work wonders e.g. WW2 government. Lastly it might encourage more people to vote if they felt their voice was being heard. This current government IMO shows that FPTP is certainly not democratic.

Baggs Tue 19-Apr-22 15:04:26

Yes, it is democracy. Nobody ever said democracy (or anything human for that matter) was perfect but it's better than the alternatives.

Baggs Tue 19-Apr-22 15:02:00

Found:

Baggs Tue 19-Apr-22 14:58:36

Out of interest, and for comparison, what are the stats for the Tony Blair 1997 election? I shall have a search but someone may be faster.

Applegran Tue 19-Apr-22 14:47:24

Whether or not you like the Conservatives - this does not look like a system which represents the 'voice of the people'. The only other country in Europe apart from the UK which uses a First Past The Post voting system to elect it’s government is Belarus - and you could say that this speaks for itself. Surely we should have fair voting here?

With Proportional Representation you can vote for the candidate you really want to see elected – there is no need for ‘tactical voting’ or fearing a ‘wasted vote’. It makes us as voters far more powerful – we can vote for which person and party we genuinely support. It makes the main parties nervous for exactly this reason: first past the post suits them. It suits them when they are in power – or think they have a good chance of power. Under the current system many votes make no difference at all – the votes which make a difference are in marginal constituencies. But all votes should matter! And with PR, they would matter.
It is well past the time when we should change the electoral system to make it more democratic, and to make votes matter. I have emailed my MP about this – but he didn’t like the idea of PR…….and I can see why. Fair votes might put his ‘safe seat’ at risk.
What do you think is the fairest voting system? And if you agree with me – lets send our MPs emails asking for fair votes! And support the organisations out there working for fair votes: The Electoral Reform Society and Make Votes Matter – they are easy to find on the internet. What do you think?