Reinstating triple lock inflationary?

StarDreamer

Coco51

10% of a state pension £9627. -£962.78
The minimum wage increase is 6.6% - £1074

The cash increase is slyly hidden when storms about pensioners being better off is misleading and unethical journalism

Not disputing what you say, but the person on minimum wage will probably, unless perhaps if working very few hours each week, have to pay a National Insurance contribution but the person on State Pension will not.

But does anybody actually get that amount of State Pension?

I may be wrong but when the new rules came in, with higher contributions, the then figure (probably now increased to the one you mention) would only be paid after 35 years of contribution at the new higher National Insurnce payment.

If I remember correctly, a person would get a pension at the higher rate for the number of the years, n, of paying in at the new rate combined with a pension at the lower rate for the up to (35-n) years of having paid in at the old lower rate.

So nobody actually getting the notional new pension until someone retiring around 2050 gets it.

But I might have got that wrong, but I seem to remember someone asking about that when the new higher pension rate was being presented somewhat ambiguously.

I think you are right, Star Dreamer - neither I nor partner are getting the quoted am9unt.

Pensioners often do not have the capacity to increase their income, if you're working, you may well have opportunities to move to a better paid job

This is a fact that many people miss. While some pensioners are still "active" many are not and have to rely absolutely upon the state pension. Younger people of working age can get up off their backsides and work a second or third job to increase their income. Or they can improve their qualifications and look for a better job.

Coco51

10% of a state pension £9627. -£962.78
The minimum wage increase is 6.6% - £1074

The cash increase is slyly hidden when storms about pensioners being better off is misleading and unethical journalism

Not disputing what you say, but the person on minimum wage will probably, unless perhaps if working very few hours each week, have to pay a National Insurance contribution but the person on State Pension will not.

But does anybody actually get that amount of State Pension?

I may be wrong but when the new rules came in, with higher contributions, the then figure (probably now increased to the one you mention) would only be paid after 35 years of contribution at the new higher National Insurnce payment.

If I remember correctly, a person would get a pension at the higher rate for the number of the years, n, of paying in at the new rate combined with a pension at the lower rate for the up to (35-n) years of having paid in at the old lower rate.

So nobody actually getting the notional new pension until someone retiring around 2050 gets it.

But I might have got that wrong, but I seem to remember someone asking about that when the new higher pension rate was being presented somewhat ambiguously.

growstuff Sunak has already confirmed that benefits will also rise in line with inflation next April.

Grantanow is correct - pension (and benefit) rises do not contribute to inflation in the same way that wage rises do. I do however believe that the rail workers should be offered more than 2% and cannot believe teachers are threatening to strike when they have been offered a much more generous 5%.

10% of a diddly squat State Pension which you have paid into all of your life is not quite the same of 1% of many workers. We did the zero percent rises as public sector workers or rises below inflation when we were working. Pensioners often do not have the capacity to increase their income, if you're working, you may well have opportunities to move to a better paid job.

Whitewavemark2

The inflation we are currently experiencing is as a result of a number of factors, but NONE as a result of wage spiral ad the government seems to be trying to suggest.

We have inflation as a result of

Oil price increase

Supply chain difficulties

The world opening up from covid and demand is exceeding demand

Food shortages due to war in Ukraine

This wretched government has done nothing to plan for or mitigate the effects of the inflation, except to try and blame ordinary people.

You forgot the kick back from Brexit.

Raising pension rate is not automatically inflationary, as it doesn't drive increased costs to business in the way that wage raises will. Also pensioners are reliable voters.

10% of a state pension £9627. -£962.78
The minimum wage increase is 6.6% - £1074

The cash increase is slyly hidden when storms about pensioners being better off is misleading and unethical journalism

Current inflation has not been caused by excessive wages for the majority. It's been caused by higher prices of (mainly) fuel and food.

It's a knock on effect. Higher wages just get passed on to everyone. However it's also a vicious circle. There are some of us that are OK at the moment but dipping into our savings means eventually we will be one of the ones struggling. At present if anything happens to my house that needs an expensive repair I could do it. If my pension doesn't increase at least with inflation I will need additional support. By that time there probably won't be anything available.

If it wasn't for privatisation, there wouldn't be so many greedy people with their noses in the trough.

10% of the state pension is still quite a small amount and older existing pensioners are receiving much less than the current £185.15.

Happygirl79

Whitewavemark2

Pensioners can’t withdraw their labour, but they can withdraw their vote.

We are not powerless.

I do agree with you there

So you agree that it's nothing to do with fairness, but winning votes.

PS. The government is already waging an intergenerational conflict.

Whitewavemark2

Pensioners can’t withdraw their labour, but they can withdraw their vote.

We are not powerless.

I do agree with you there

Grantanow you could make the same argument about all benefits, so why aren't they all being increased by the rate of inflation?

There is an underlying economic point which almost all the media ignore in the interests of promoting their particular ideological or political stances. A state pension increase is unlike a wage increase because it does not add to the 'input' costs of business whether manufacturing or service industry and therefore does not have to be passed on the consumer in the form of a price increase so it does not fuel price inflation. It is a charge on general taxation like the NHS. Therefore state pension increases whether index linked to inflation, wages or a fixed 2.5% do not contribute to inflation increases and protect pensioners to some degree from price increases driven by foreign wars, wage settlements, crop failures and other causes. Similarly, indexed Civil Service and indexed private sector pension increases do not contribute to inflation. I think this is a point the Treasury understands and underpins it's view. It is not, of course, in the interests of those wanting to start an intergenerational conflict or bash Civil Servants in order to sell newspapers.

I note that while this thread is on 'Chat', not News & Politics' we're not really getting any input from people who don't post on the latter forum.

Which is a shame...

The Big ByElection Road Trip on the Guardian Politics Weekly podcast:

www.theguardian.com/politics/audio/2022/jun/22/the-big-byelection-road-trip-politics-weekly-podcast

Most people they spoke to in Tiverton, life long Tory voters, people working in farming and small businesses saying they have had enough and time to switch. One woman arrived saying that "hundreds of thousands of people were having parties", LibDem and Labour are all rubbish and she will continue to vote Tory. I doubt she has even listened to what the other candidates have to say. Not a clue about issues locally or nationally. All about the parties.

If only a Labour politician could be so concise and right.

twitter.com/meadwaj/status/1539371146285568005?s=12

Do people not still take copies of liberal and independent papers and place them careful over the pile of right wing rags? I started doing this when I joined the #stopfundinghate against the Daily Mail and Express and continue to do so!

I like this tweet from Russ Jones author of The Decade in Tory. My parentheses:

We [the Sun Newspaper] told you to vote to go back to the 1970s, and then we cheered when you voted to go back to the 1970s, and then we called anybody attempting to prevent us returning to the 1970s a traitor. Imagine our shock at Britain returning to the 1970s.

Here's a conversation I had with my neighbour last week. We're both retired.

Him - I wonder what will happen in the Tiverton by election?
Me - I hope they send a clear message to the Tories.
Him - There's nothing wrong with the Tories.
Me - How did you feel about them breaking the triple lock?
Him - Ah well, what's the alternative...it's either the Conservatives or communism.
Me - There are things between those two you know.
Him - Are there? What's that then.

RichmondPark

I do hope so Casdon. I don't buy the papers but just seeing them sitting their lying in the supermarket is enough to raise my blood pressure.

I know what you mean - I never cease to be amazed by how gullible people must be to take it at face value. We have proof of it on this site though, a lot of older people don’t challenge themselves enough to look at other points of view or have evidence to support what they believe.

I do hope so Casdon. I don't buy the papers but just seeing them sitting their lying in the supermarket is enough to raise my blood pressure.

RichmondPark

I am so angry this morning at the newspapers. The Daily Mail has a headline 'Labour isn't working'. 'Class war' and 'Hatred of Boris' splashed across other papers.

So much division being sown, so much casting of blame on a party which hasn't been in power for over a decade and the poorest in society.

All while the Human Rights Act is being torn apart and Raab is putting through a bill which takes us away from the European Court of Human Rights.

No triple lock pension for the poorest of the poor, workers being castigated for standing up for their rights, the PM not being held to account for his lies and cheating. I feel we are being run by the worst of people partly in government and partly in the press.

I'm sorry, I know this isn't on topic quite but I am so angry and despairing. When will people wise up to to what is going on and ask the question - Why are we being lied to all the bloody time.

I think younger people are far more clued up than our generation thankfully. They don’t tend to read newspapers, and social media is bristling with anger at what’s happening. I guess the by elections will show us how the country really feels, as they are two quite typical constituencies.