Scottish grans only

TerriBull this is the first thread where a poster has been rude about my DH. Shame it was a Scot.

Mumsnet has Scotsnet and similar for Ireland and Wales.
Maybe that is what's needed on Gransnet.
Also an Englishnet thread if so desired.
Much as I love my country (Scotland), it is not all paintings on shortbread tins or Nessy.

It is possible to love more one country and appreciate that there is more than one point of view within that country.

And not 'my country is soo much better than yours'
Or 'my view is the right one, you are wrong. ?

I'm very proud of my birth county as are all English people.

Nice for you, but please don't speak for me.

The thread got derailed before the end of the first page with people telling us how badly they'd been treated in Scotland. And kept veering back to that theme despite people trying to explain that there are unpleasant people everywhere. I worked in Dundee for nearly 30 years, and I'm not recognising the descriptions here. Except maybe The Clep bar which had to be seen to be believed.

Stop expecting people to treat you badly over Luncheon Vouchers jealousy and things will improve.

Speaking from my personal point of view, I never comment on the desire for Scottish Independence, I'm English and I respectfully butt out of what is a matter for the people of Scotland to decide one way or the other. Neither do I think all Scots hate the English, like everyone else bar a couple of experiences in my working life, all those I have met have been very nice.

We all know threads evolve and possibly the notion that it was being derailed came when Scottish posters, whilst loving their country disagreed with the idealised overall view, when any thread promotes definitive stance there are bound to be those who will disagree. I can guarantee if there were such a eulogising thread about say England there would be a massive pile on to the contradict such an opinion, and to that end you could pick any free democratic country and they too would have their critics from within.

I came in when I saw posts that were biased and unfair that veered off topic by taking a side swipe at England, I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the OP for that to happen

And vice versa!

Thanks for the kind wishes TerriBull.

There is still a perception that the reason Scotland wants to stand on its own 2 feet is because we hate the English. There's a perception that any time we meet an English person we are rude to them or belittle them. No doubt there are some bams who behave that way. But for many of us, England is irrelevant in how we define ourselves. But many English seem to find that difficult to assimilate.

It's just not all about the English. But look at this thread. Starts looking for nice things about Scotland but soon becomes a litany of times posters have felt unwelcome here. It's ridiculous and a great example of how people see Scotland through an English lens.

I'm just wondering why you think "England hates to be ignored" Volver Is that observation related to the government or the nation as a whole? it's rather a sweeping statement. I'm not sure you'd appreciate such a similar opinion about Scotland. My own thoughts are most nations would appreciate some nuance in the way they are collectively perceived, otherwise we veer into stereotyping.

Hope you are feeling better and the same to anyone else recovering from Covid

I lived and worked in Scotland for some years when I was first marriage. It is a beautiful country and we made many friends. I just laughed when we were told by our friends that they never thought of us as English!

Having said that I now live in the East Midlands and regard it as the most underrated county in the country. It is beautiful, not busy and the people are really friendly. We too say thank you when we get off the bus!

Aveline

Yammy we're truly not all like that up here. Please don't give up on us all. The union is important and, as a Scot, I'm proud to be part of it.

Thanks, Aveline I won't give up on you as many English people will not either.
As a visitor, I did say I had never encountered any prejudice. I have Scots relations and friends who are all for the Union.
Though no one is going to sit back and soak up all the aggression shown on these posts.
It will make me think twice. I explained why I joined the post I wish I had not tried to help.

Thanks Aveline. Yes, I've got it; not quite 100% yet.

'Victims' on all sides obviously.
I'd been wondering where you were volver. Had Covid? Hope you're fully recovered.

Cherrytree59

Volver first Scotland pitted against the English and now you are doing the same with Nationalist and Unionists
Will it be the old Rangers v Celtic 'religion' next? .

The Bonny land of my birth but
there is an unpleasant undercurrent that seems to still be alive and kicking. ?

Scotland is not pitted against England. One thing I learnt during the last referendum is that England hates to be ignored. Well that's pretty much what I do right now. My English born husband thinks the same. Just because people have different opinions that doesn't mean we have to be "pitted" against each other. I just wish everyone would grow up and stop playing the victim.

Grandmabatty

Well that was an unpleasant post and not warranted I think. Very few 'Scots grans' here appeared bigoted about English people but actually apologised for the behaviour of some scots towards them, me amongst them. It's a pity the thread has been derailed. Yammy I think your remarks are uncalled for.

Were my comments uncalled for? Well, read again what some of your country women have written. I'm glad you were not one of them.
Only yesterday someone complained that the cricket team represents the U.K, not individual countries. Indeed sport is one sector that can unite you only have to look to the Rugby Union the Irish team represents both sides of the border.
Apologise to the grans from Ulster I forgot your Red Hand of Ulster and beautiful Antrim Coast.

Volver first Scotland pitted against the English and now you are doing the same with Nationalist and Unionists
Will it be the old Rangers v Celtic 'religion' next? .

The Bonny land of my birth but
there is an unpleasant undercurrent that seems to still be alive and kicking. ?

Esspee

This morning I took the bus into town and was very conscious that every local who got off thanked the driver. This included several people who clearly had moved here relatively recently. It made me wonder if that is a National trait or whether it happens in other countries.

Scottish Gran here who lived in Portugal for some years so can confirm it's a trait in Portugal too Esspee.

Paranoia.

I'm pretty sure if anyone were to start a thread that were to present an idealised one dimensional thread about England there would be plenty of interjections along the lines of "in your dreams" I can see the OP didn't have the intention of making it a point scoring debacle Nevertheless when a couple of posters come in with an anti English perspective coupled with facile comments then possibly they invited a response.

I quite take the point that Scottish people have no doubt met a less than welcoming time in England, isn't that a testament to the fact that all nations per se are a mix of the gracious and the un gracious and of course if we experience negativity, particularly if it feels personal, it can shape our attitude.

Jings, there's a lot of folk here who think everybody's out to get them. Isn't that what everybody complains the Scots do? There's a lot of long memories here about imagined slights from decades ago and fictional animosities.

Poor old Unionists, the nasty blue-faced folk are just out to get you.

You can't judge all of us on experiences of a few unpleasant people. It's grossly unfair!

'What has England got?'. This reminds me of a well known ladies' panel show I watched a few years ago. One of the panellists was Scottish, one was of Irish descent, one of Egyptian descent.
They discussed the topic. All except one said the were proud of their heritage and couldn't think of anything that the English could be proud of. I was furious (and I am Irish by blood). They were more than happy to live and earn their money in England.

I'm 25% English, resident in England for 51 years; mother of 2 English sons. How could I possibly be anti-England? Yet I do sympathise with the pro-independence stance of most of my Scottish family and can't help thinking that regions of England could do with a measure of independence from London-centric government - possibly as part of a federal structure. But that's a matter for another thread.

Yammy we're truly not all like that up here. Please don't give up on us all. The union is important and, as a Scot, I'm proud to be part of it.

I agree Grandmabatty.
I see very few bigoted posts from Scottish grans.
How sad that a seemingly inoccuous thread has resulted in such unpleasantness.
I could easily quote a few instances, where I was unpleasantly treated in England because I was Scottish. However, I won't bother, because you will find bigots all over the world, not just Scotland. Its only a minority. Every country has them.

I too didn't see the OP as promoting exclusiveness. I assumed it was like the other Scottish Grans Only threads, where we talked about our favourite foods, songs, sayings.
A lovely thread spoiled.

Whew came on here thinking it was another 'Scottish' saying or song thread.
I have to agree totally with terribull.
I am a 'weggie' and always say I am Clyde built.

I can give an endless list of famous poets , inventers, artists that hail from Scotland.
I can agree with how kind and friendly 'most' of the Scottish people are.
I can show wonderful photographs of the Scottish landscape, buildings, wildlife etc.
But I can do all the above from many other places in the world.

How many places in the modern world you have to leave the land of your birth, because your spouse is a different religion to yourself???

My father had phrase 'is your back nae sore from patting it?'