Church of England -why aren't you asking 'What is a Man?'

Thank you Toscalily that's very kind of you to say that. Most women find the term cis offensive but, it seems that those who insist on using it, are the same people who want to stop these conversations from even taking place because they're "harmful, dangerous and offensive", whilst studiously ignoring the harm, danger and offense that's being caused to women by the removal of women's spaces.

Chewbacca You post in a way that makes things so clear and the dangers of ignoring the direction we are going. So wrong to be accused of ranting because reading through all of this, you are not ranting but constantly putting the case and the need for protection, not of undermining the need for woman only spaces.

I would also like to state that I am a woman, not a cis woman (I may be late to this but only found out what that was supposed to mean in the last year). I find the term offensive and object to certain posters constant reference to "cis women".

Good post Chewbacca.

I'm increasingly irritated with the insistent attempts to silence the voices of posters on this forum. It's bad enough that women generally are being told "shut up", "sit down", "don't say that", "be kind"; but now we're being told that our very conversations are harmful, and should stop, the things that we discuss are being twisted into something that, looking back over the thread, have never even been raised. I've come to accept that some men always have, always will, try to silence women who have the audacity and temerity to question, challenge and deny their every whim. I will not accept that from another poster. The sheer amount of research, data and exchanges of information that is shared on these threads never ceases to amaze and impress me and not once have I ever seen a single post that has vilified the many good and decent trans people who are going about their day to day life in peace and quiet, with no drama, no fuss and no demands. If other posters don't have the capacity or ability to understand precisely why women (and thankfully, an increasing number of men) are fighting to retain the right to women only spaces, and why they are so vitally important for women, that's their problem and they'll have to find their own coping strategies to deal with it. Because I will NOT be quiet. I will NOT sit down. And I will NOT move over.

I agree with Rosie. We have a dear trans friend who is absolutely horrified by these rabid people who may well not be genuine anyway. They do her no good at all.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202207/medium-554654-screenshot-20220718-024147.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202207/medium-643543-screenshot-20220718-024206.png

And I've heard no more about this guy, who did claim to be a transwoman, since the NUS disappeared him from sight.

transcrimeuk.com/2018/08/02/jess-josh-bradley/

The transcrime UK website lists many, many crimes committed in the UK by men claiming to be transwomen.

I am perfectly happy to accept that none of them are real transwomen, whatever that may mean, however they and their crimes show that acceptance of self-id of sex is a really dangerous path to take.

For instance, I came across this pic showing men who have pushed for removal of women's & girls' safeguards .
I don't know if any of them claimed to be transwomen.

It seems to be the same person Chewbacca.

www.opindia.com/2022/07/usa-transwoman-shifted-from-womens-jail-after-impregnating-2-women/

Perhaps there is confusion between the idea of transwomen committing crimes and abusive men claiming to be transwomen and committing crimes.

As self-identification of sex has become commonplace in hospitals, prisons, youth groups etc etc, that is giving much more opportunity to abusive men.

I'd have thought that, instead of saying we should shut up, anyone concerned about transwomen would be recommending strengthened safeguards, as we are doing.

Is this a new repirt SueDonim? There was a similar report a few weeks ago that someone posted about on one of these threads; I wonder if this is another?

There’s an interesting story coming out of America today about a transwoman prisoner who has made two of her fellow inmates pregnant. Biology is real.

I would seem that you're right Rosie51. Even having this discussion is apparently a dangerous thing to do and can cause harm to the poor wee souls. But sod "Helen" and her non verbal, physically and mentally disabled daughter; she'll just have to suck it up.

Chewbacca I think some would willingly sacrifice anyone, daughter or grandmother, to the ideology and to validate the feelings of men who wish they were women. Nothing that biological women feel, fear or just feel uncomfortable with comes close to the wants of certain males. The sad thing is transwomen like my DIL's cousin who just want to get on quietly and unobtrusively with living their life get caught up in the negative responses that result from rabid TRAs

Nor I FarNorth. And I'd be a great deal happier if I saw as much concern and angst for the rape victims who are denied female only counselling sessions, the women banged up in a prison cell for 22 hours a day with a biological male and the physically and mentally disabled who's dignity is being cast aside by being told that their personal intimate care can now be served by a man. I'm not aware that any of these requesrs, or the others, are casting trans women as felons with nefarious intent. I'm simply saying that, in certain circumstances, the dignity, safety and mental wellbeing of women is now becoming secondary to the wishes of some biological males and I believe that to be wrong. If some perceive that as harmful to discuss, I'd ask them to think long and hard as to how they'd feel if it was their non verbal daughter, who could neither toilet, dress, nor wash herself; how would they feel about a biological male doing it?

Who has mentioned breaking laws?

What I was asking was about asking people to declare a gender. Please don't spin it into you being hounded into needing a break. It was a simple and non-confrontational question in relation to a video that you posted.

I haven't seen much on these threads about trans people breaking laws VS.
Good idea to take a break if you need to.

Honestly no doodledog and its concerning to me how these threads wind up and wind up, especially the examples of "trans" breaking laws as if in any other context we would accept thatm

Safeguarding should be in place, as it is for many situations. The way we safeguard children because some parents are abusive bit it's not the fault of the rest of us parents that this must be

But all the rest, that it's an attack on women, well, there are many good and decent trans people and I honestly think you are blind to the harm that is caused by these conversations and the fear that has become... conspiracy level

I don't want any harm to women or trans people and I do believe this will ultimately happen with constructive consideration of issues...

Hope this helps but these threads...and others...I have hit some sort of limit for what I can reasonably tolerate at the moment and should not have rejoined this discussion

I actually posted it on the wrong thread I expect you can guess where it was meant to go but then in conversation could not tell the difference between a discussion thread and a genuine thread from a grandmother who needed advice...

How rubbish is that

OK, taking a break, sometimesbthat is what is needed

VioletSky

I think a person who loses a leg and runs 10 miles with a prosphetic leg is inspiring, I don't need to do anything I just am inspired by their courage and bravery

Ok, we have different ideas about what inspirational means - that's fine. But a few days ago you didn't understand what I meant by the requirement to declare a pronoun being outing for those who aren't ready. Do you now see how that might work?

but it’s nothing to do with the title of the thread.

True, but it's good for a derailment attempt.

*In all these threads, no one has ever said people should not be what they want to be, only that they should not use ‘being what they want to be’ as an excuse for cheating in sport, cheating in jobs, denying female rights to safe spaces-created for the very reason that some TW would try to access them, and claiming that they have changed sex-which is not possible.
The few transwomen who do that, together with those who support the rights of such TW to do those things have done more harm to trans people than anything else.*

I agree with this

My dad had a prosthetic leg and a triple heart bypass. We found the fact that he just got in with life inspiring, but it’s nothing to do with the title of the thread.

Wasn't there another man, with only one leg, who ran 140 marathons to raise money for cancer charities? It's a brave and wonderful thing to do, but I'm not sure why the man in the Facebook clip is so much more inspirational than all the other amputees who do competitive sports for charity.

I think a person who loses a leg and runs 10 miles with a prosphetic leg is inspiring, I don't need to do anything I just am inspired by their courage and bravery

I'm still not sure what she inspires you to do, but can you see what I mean about asking people to declare gender pronouns being unreasonable?

I just think she is brave and inspiring