ABC Pride book from Dorling Kindersley, for young children

I can assure you that any professional working with children will have had hours (probably hundreds of hours in total, after a few years in the job) of how to handle gender related issues.

What is the justification for spending so much on 'gender-related issues' in cash-strapped schools, though? Shouldn't schools be where children go to be educated, not to explore issues like 'gender', which many believe is a concept that was created by Stonewall in order to divert ££££ into their coffers?

I don't think for a minute that teachers or other staff deliberately 'promote' the idea of transitioning - that does have overtones of Thatcherite thinking on homosexuality - but the idea that was discussed upthread about children being referred if they express dissatisfaction with their changing bodies is unnerving. I am also uneasy with the view that school staff should somehow 'protect' children from their parents, if the parents don't buy into the current stage of gender ideology. There have been comments on here about how it is a good thing that schools teach tolerance and acceptance of difference, as not all parents are up to the job. It is perfectly possible to be tolerant and accepting of difference without agreeing that there are 100 'genders' or whatever the current notion happens to be.

As we all seem to agree, children have been dissatisfied with their changing bodies for generations, yet it is only very recently that the idea that they might feel 'out of alignment' with their sex. Previously it was all about reassuring them that 'normal' covers a range of shapes, sizes and behaviours - what has changed to force conformity onto vulnerable children?

If, as was also suggested upthread, the target market for the book in the OP is trans-identifying parents, it seems to me to be falling very wide of the mark. Surely they would know the answers to any questions their children might have about the subject, and if they wanted very young children to know that Mummy or Daddy has transitioned they would have told them? It seems to me to be pushing an agenda in the way that Frollo does in the Disney version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame

Mollygo

GJ, it’s not “you can’t stop them’, it’s the danger of supporting it or even recommending it as some on GN have been seen to do with no mention of giving information about the potential problems their actions might cause them.
You can’t stop children obtaining puberty blockers on the internet, and all the hype seems to normalise this step, but warning of the dangers and the potential future harm seems to come a long way down the list of things to say, even to 16 year olds.
Whilst offering support and understanding to those with gender dysphoria who are desperately unhappy and think their lives would be better as the opposite gender we have a responsibility to make them aware of the possible future effects of what they desire. (Although telling 16 year olds something they don’t want to hear is rarely effective.)

Who recommended it? I read the trans threads and have seen no one recommending it.

Buying online drugs. How are you going to police that? (I'm not supporting it, btw, just a rhetorical question).

I completely agree with your final sentence. They dismiss anything that 1) Comes from sources they don't trust (aka adults/parents) 2) Comes from those who disagree with them 3) Comes from those they think don't listen to them.

GJ, it’s not “you can’t stop them’, it’s the danger of supporting it or even recommending it as some on GN have been seen to do with no mention of giving information about the potential problems their actions might cause them.
You can’t stop children obtaining puberty blockers on the internet, and all the hype seems to normalise this step, but warning of the dangers and the potential future harm seems to come a long way down the list of things to say, even to 16 year olds.
Whilst offering support and understanding to those with gender dysphoria who are desperately unhappy and think their lives would be better as the opposite gender we have a responsibility to make them aware of the possible future effects of what they desire. (Although telling 16 year olds something they don’t want to hear is rarely effective.)

You can't stop even a 12 year old from breast binding, if that is what they want.

You don't have to claim it's a normal thing to do and that the girl doing it is actually a boy called Gerald who must be referred to as 'he'.

The detransitioners arent saying it was difficult though are they. We can run campaigns though to talk about the risks of breast binding, its what we do with lots of other behaviours.

Mollygo

^If they come out, because they're searching for their own 'normal' and then go back in again, all well and good.^
Well put, but as I’ve read on GN some posters including some involved in child education supported early chemical or physical alteration like puberty blockers and breast binding.
So long as those who would advocate that, no longer do so, no harm will be done to children ‘coming out’ or ‘going in,’

Depends what you call early. 16 year olds may be old enough to decide some of those things.

But given that the waiting list is around 5 years, they'd be lucky to access those services before they were 20 anyway.

You can't stop even a 12 year old from breast binding, if that is what they want. It's possible to do with it regular old bandages, available from any pharmacy. It isn't necessary to have a ready made binder.

If they come out, because they're searching for their own 'normal' and then go back in again, all well and good.
Well put, but as I’ve read on GN some posters including some involved in child education supported early chemical or physical alteration like puberty blockers and breast binding.
So long as those who would advocate that, no longer do so, no harm will be done to children ‘coming out’ or ‘going in,’

Does anyone think children don’t read all the hype and wonder about things that aren’t there?
We live in a world where children and adults are persuaded into buying, doing, or trying things they’d not normally do by the hype on media and in friendship (or bullying ) groups?
Not sure which world that might be.

I have spent over 30 years in childrens services thanks. The advice that professionals were told to give 5 minutes ago has been shown to be not helpful and in some cases completely inaccurate. I dont particularly think this is the fault of educators as many of them were the ones raising concerns.

FarNorth

GagaJo surely you know there's been a huge increase in the number of 'trans' children of all ages.
Are you seriously saying that they all spontaneously decided to 'come out' in the last few years ?
And are you also saying that sexist attitudes and inappropriate questions, such as described in the GirlGuiding piece, would play no part in that?

I'm talking about the hype on here about yet another issue. Assuming that educators and professionals will leap on a child with totally normal puberty related feelings and force them into a trans narrative.

The key is in the word 'professional'. And what is being suggested on here would be akin to abuse.

I can assure you that any professional working with children will have had hours (probably hundreds of hours in total, after a few years in the job) of how to handle gender related issues. None of which would assume that a girl finding puberty hard to deal with is anything unsual.

Children are not coming out with gender issues because it's being sold to them. What a statement! They come out, in the same way that gay children can now come out, because it is no longer shameful to do so.

If they come out, because they're searching for their own 'normal' and then go back in again, all well and good. No one is leading them down a trans path. And I'm afraid that anyone that thinks that is the case is seeing stuff that isn't there.

But perhaps some GC people with no child welfare training know better.

Here is a link to a very good seminar on Sex, Gender & Schools, held recently at Edinburgh University.
It has 3 speakers for about 20 mins each and questions for about 40 mins and covers a lot of information.
blogs.ed.ac.uk/edinburghafaf/2022/07/07/sex-gender-and-schools-recording-now-available/?fbclid=IwAR1AuxBytX4Je36LIah2pcrKCq-Lxn3J5dRP7740GjiRbZtIzpztGOXhBtw

"Feminist educators have spent decades considering how to challenge gender stereotyping in schools, and how to make schools more supportive places for gender non-conforming pupils. The recent unprecedented increase in numbers of children and young people (especially girls) identifying as transgender has brought issues around gender and education into the spotlight, and many schools have turned to government-funded lobby groups for guidance on how to respond. The interim report of the NHS England-commissioned Cass Review recently noted that “gender expression” is widely regarded as complex, and forged in the “interaction between biological, cultural, social and psychological factors”. And yet the Scottish Government’s non-statutory guidance for schools, and the advice frequently given to teachers by lobby groups, is based on a more simplistic view, that children and young people asserting a transgender identity are expressing an inner and authentic truth. This seminar will use insights from feminist theory to explore and analyse the environment in which children and young people come to identify as transgender, and to consider how gender is (and could be) framed in the school curriculum. We will examine how discussion has been closed down, including in University departments of education, and invite audience members to be part of re-opening informed, critical and evidence-based dialogue.
Speakers:
Stephanie Davies-Arai, Director, Transgender Trend: “From Tumblr to TikTok – The Gender Identity Generation
Professor Michele Moore: “Dare to Say: Gender Identity Ideology is Dangerous in Schools”
Dr Shereen Benjamin, University of Edinburgh: “Gender In and Beyond the School Curriculum”"

GagaJo surely you know there's been a huge increase in the number of 'trans' children of all ages.
Are you seriously saying that they all spontaneously decided to 'come out' in the last few years ?
And are you also saying that sexist attitudes and inappropriate questions, such as described in the GirlGuiding piece, would play no part in that?

Galaxy

Do you mean like the pie in the sky of born in the wrong body,
the pie in the sky of no problems at the tavistock, the pie in the sky of no problems with puberty blockers.

You know what I mean.

I mean finding inventing issues that don't actually exist to further your cause.

That would definitely be a slap on the wrist if that was said when dealing with a child who had reported something.

Yes, Mollygo, its a bit like as child telling you they've been 'touched' and you asking if it was 'here or there.' The defence in court would have a field day!

Do you mean like the pie in the sky of born in the wrong body,
the pie in the sky of no problems at the tavistock, the pie in the sky of no problems with puberty blockers.

Galaxy

You mean we were right Gagajo in our previous incarnation as you call it, as all sporting bodies are now deciding, as the reports relating to children are indicating and so on.

No, I don't mean that. I mean that at least there was some 'real world' relevance, instead of pie in the sky hysteria.

Yet GirlGuiding happily quotes the parent saying that Mollygo.
Others may see it and ask similar things of their own kids, believing it's a good way to proceed.

Can you tell us a bit more about how you feel? There are some boys who like all the things that society thinks are for girls but know themselves to be boys, and there are some who feel like they are girls inside.
That would definitely be a slap on the wrist if that was said when dealing with a child who had reported something.
Leading questions, or adding your own information into the discussion in order to elicit answers (usually in line with what youthink). Totally wrong as I’m sure all those who deal with safeguarding issues in school know.

Maybe we could start a lexicon of terms that are used to describe those women who have the audacity to ask questions, raise queries and just don't blindly accept what they're told?

Hysterical
Terfs
Cis women
Fish wives
Transphobics
Dinosaurs

There'll be more I expect.

We've been doing so well, but now it's back to calling us 'hysterical' (that trusty old sexist slur), 'unrealistic' and 'frenzied'.

Again, if any non-posters are reading, can you see that it is not 'the gender critical' who are posting insults? I found that accusation impossible to ignore, and I'm not the reporting type, but I do hope that people can see the situation for what it was - a biased and inaccurate viewpoint.

You mean we were right Gagajo in our previous incarnation as you call it, as all sporting bodies are now deciding, as the reports relating to children are indicating and so on.

Indeed icanhandthemback. That whole story, on the GirlGuiding website, is awful .

Unrealistic hysteria of people crying it’s never to early to tell children lots of (to them) unnecessary and incomprehensible details about gender,
or unrealistic hysteria of people saying there is no need to confuse young children by telling them unnecessary and incomprehensible details too early?
Hmm

Instead we asked, “Can you tell us a bit more about how you feel? There are some boys who like all the things that society thinks are for girls but know themselves to be boys, and there are some who feel like they are girls inside."

Now, I'd have said that was "leading" the child. I'd be more inclined to have only asked the first question and then listened to their answer.
When I was younger I wanted to be "one of the boys" who always played better games than the girls did. My aunt let me and I played with the boys at school. If I came when they called for the boys, nobody said anything. I can't remember when I stopped feeling like that but it was something I obviously stopped wanting. I just wonder how many children go through that stage but left alone would just naturally go back to a more typical path for their biological sex.

The book / trans supporters / trans people don't make children feel these feelings need to be addressed in any way related to trans issues. I'm not sure why this is assumed to happen? Yet more unrealistic hysteria.

I can't believe I'm saying it, but at least the previous incarnation of GC frenzy had some basis in reality (sports, treatements etc).