Archie Battersbee

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/barts-health-nhs-trust-v-dance-battersbee/

You may find this interesting (long read!)

You misunderstand me Bluebelle, I am not saying that the incident should not be investigated, nor am I saying that action should not be taken. where appropriate. I just think, at the moment, what happened should not be published online because of the danger of other young people trying to do whatever he was doing when this tragic episode happens.

It is like when there are terrorist trials and some details of how someone got round security controls or made the inflammable liquid or explosive they used is not published because of the danger of someone making the same material. It doesn't stop the security forces taking action to make it more difficult to obtain certain raw materieals, or circumvent the controls, just that what is being done is not published.

JaneJudge wanting to know what caused this event is not the same as judging what happened or the person involved. It is natural to want to know, many of us have similarly aged grandsons. However, I can see why, in this case, details are not being published.

JaneJudge

I may be alone but I don't even want to know what he tried to do, whether is was an attempted suicide or otherwise. I just find it all incredibly sad and empathise with all concerned. I don't need to judge anyone and neither do any of you. Life is complex

you may be jane but you are not the judge! walk on by if it offends you!

Just heard that Court of Human Rights has rejected the parents appeal., so sad for them but let’s just hope they eventually come to terms with his death

I don’t think it’s irrelevant Monica because if it was Tik tok or any other Internet site or ‘game’ surely it needs to be discussed looked into , researched and if necessary shut down
If it wasn’t then some reasons need to be looked at, was he being bullied , treated badly,, been let down by a friend / girlfriend, getting into trouble at school I think it does really matter, to try and prevent the same happening to others
If Til Tok are sure it’s not their site then it will be very detrimental to not know Surely the police could see what activity was on his phone just prior
I hope the poor parents get some answers…. this must be going around and around in their heads

Yes Jane, but unfortunately some people do have to make sense of it.
Of course it’s bloody sad

How he got in this state is irrelevant. It is dealing with the result of it that is the tragedy, as it is with all those similar cases where parents and doctors are in accord over turning life support systems off.

I may be alone but I don't even want to know what he tried to do, whether is was an attempted suicide or otherwise. I just find it all incredibly sad and empathise with all concerned. I don't need to judge anyone and neither do any of you. Life is complex

MayBee70

I don’t want to be insensitive by asking this but why are the parents so sure it was an internet dare and not a suicide attempt? Which, obviously doesn’t make any difference to what’s happening.

They aren’t.
And TikTok have said that if this rumour is perpetuated, they will sue

MayBee70 I think the details of what happened precisely to reduce this child to this sad state is not being publicised for fear of copycat attempts, you cannot underestimate the stupidity of some teenagers, or young men.

I think there is clear evidence of what he did. it may come out at the inquest, but it may be embargoed even then.

Aspen the child is not slowly dying he died in April
MayBee I m presuming it’s much easier to believe that…. the alternative would need a lot of personal questioning wouldnt it?
I agree with those that say this is going beyond, to be blaming the staff the courts the doctors I can so feel for them so much and can’t imagine how I d deal with this heartbreaking situation but it’s going wrong now with their accusations

I don’t want to be insensitive by asking this but why are the parents so sure it was an internet dare and not a suicide attempt? Which, obviously doesn’t make any difference to what’s happening.

My aunt was on life support after an operation and her body began to lose function, she was offered dialysis which some of her children wanted and others didn't. It was done, but she didn't improve and eventually her life support was turned off. She was 85 and the doctors tried every thing so I would imagine Archie's doctors are the same

I think you're right too, paddyann.

Quite honestly, few of us know how we'd feel in those circumstances but I wonder if I would prefer my child to go peacefully and his organs be used before too late to live on in other children to give them hope of life and a future.

Aspen It is probably already far too late to transplant any of this child's organs. They will have deteriorated too much because of the very long time he has been on life support. When my sister died, the organs were removed 2 days after she was declared brain dead and they could not be left much longer.

I am in total agreement with everything in paddyann54's post.

Totally agree with your post paddyann54

I think you’re right paddyann54, I’m sure the most experienced and senior doctors in the hospital have been speaking to Archie’s family and providing them with all the evidence to prove that he is brain stem dead. It is always very senior clinicians dealing with families in circumstances like this, it’s one of the most challenging parts of their roles.

It would seem the family aren't listening ,simply because they dont WANT to hear the truth.Thats perfectly understandable but to think the Hospital management haven't "communicated" with them is unlikely.These teams are highly trained in cases like this ,they see deaths every day and many difficult discussions are had with grief stricken family.
Dont blame them for the family not hearing or understanding ...or not wanting to understand,I'm sure they have done their utmost to make the family face reality

I agree HousePlantQueen it must be very hard for all the medical staff concerned to have to deal with this without the emotive language.
I'm left with the feeling that hospital management and family did not communicate well, so difficult to deal with legal, moral and ethical issues at such a sad time.

This poor child is slowly dying, I wish the parents had accepted the verdict of the first class medical team and maybe allowed his desperately needed organs to be used to help other children. His memory would have then lived on.

Yes Mumsnet is a very interesting read. Sympathetic to the parents for what they are going through, but most are rightfully upset about the emotive language being used by the family; they describe what is happening as Archie's state execution. This is wrong in so many ways, for the staff who are professionally and emotionally involved in the care, for other families who have had to make similar decisions as we know on here, and for other families of desperately ill children who are being caught up in the dreadful media circus, whipped up by Archie's family and those who have jumped in to push their own agenda. This whole situation is dreadful, tragic, and when Archie is finally allowed to die, the so called supporters will move on to their next cause, leaving the family alone.

There are four consecutive threads on Mumsnet about the case that may be of interest

I agree with every word of your post at 09.32 Dickens

I too didn't know what had happened to him, surly this must be a criminal offence?
This is so sad.

Jaxjacky

Christian Concern Fleurpepper
christianconcern.com/

Thank you.

FannyCornForth- I my- I never knew that is how he was found. Surely, if it was some sort of Internet 'dare' - experts would have found evidence on his computer by now.

How so tragic, RIP.