Anyone still thinking of voting tory at the next General Election?

Fleurpepper

Your choice entirely.

Thank you!

What would you call that comment?

Young people will tell you that 50-65s are old!

Our of respect, I have re-read the last few pages. I have certainly not been rude, nor arrogant. And no-one else either.

Fleurpepper It was the 50-65s who voted for Brexit, not the old people. A study done by the London School of Economics showed that those old enough to have spent their formative years during the war and in its immediate aftermath were far more likely to vote Remain than to vote leave.
blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2019/03/21/not-all-the-over-65s-are-in-favour-of-brexit-britains-wartime-generation-are-almost-as-pro-eu-as-millennials/

LauraNorderr

Not everyone is a scientist nor an economist nor even a politician but surely on a chat forum even the simplest of us can voice an opinion. It really is just a chat to me. I may learn something, I may change my views, I may not. Surely differing views are what makes a chat more interesting, apart from cake of course.

Agreed.

Your choice entirely.

Fleurpepper I currently have enough going on without getting embroiled in another one of these threads.

But, I am not prepared to stand to one side while arrogant rudeness abounds.

I may not agree with LauraNorderr but, as kittylester has said, feeling desperate is no excuse for rudeness on a discussion forum.

It won't change anything.
Posters may think it will but it will not.

kittylester

Feeling desperate is no excuse for rudeness.

Lots of arrogance around too.

Why not give your opinion on the subject of the thread instead of judging posts and posters? Will you vote Tory again?

No-one has to answer of course or contribute to a thread. Everyone is free to ignore and scroll past.

But as it was a lot of old people who voted for Brexit, and a lot of old people who voted for Tories, and Johnson, and Truss- they made a big difference, and tragically, not for the bette.

Growstuff You put it much more succinctly.

I deduce from LauraNorder's last post that she is saying that she is accustomed to talking any old tosh and basing her opinons on no evidence at all, beyond the fact that they quite appeal to her and that it has come as a shock to her that some people, possibly most people, expect those expressing contentious opinions on serious subjects to be able to support those views with evidence and references to the responsible sources.

If she is a typical Conservative supporter no wonder the country has had to suffer with utterly inadequate Conservative Prime Ministers, as the conservative electorate have voted for leaders, whose thought processes are as far into cloud-cuckoo land as their own.

Callistemon21

^Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?^

It doesn't depend on Gransnet either.

Gransnet is not a government or opposition Think Tank.
It's just a load of older people expressing opinions.
Quite irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

?????

kittylester

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

What's wrong with intolerance of claims which are just wrong? Should we behave like zombies and overlook "fake news"?

I know the conversation has ‘moved on’ but only just come online. So my answer is absolutely not. This was a ‘safe’ Tory seat. It is unlikely to remain so. The Conservatives have made themselves unelectable.

Feeling desperate is no excuse for rudeness.

Lots of arrogance around too.

Fleurpepper

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

No, I don't think so.

I may feel Laura has incorrect facts about people "deciding" not to work and claim benefits, but her opinion of the Conservative view is one of many.

I do wish someone would watch the Common Ground (thread of the same name), so I know I am not hearing things or misunderstanding them. This gives more of an insight into the thinking of the Truss camp. And they believe it - and those who vote for them must believe it

kittylester

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

Rude? Don't think so. People are feeling desperate and seriously concerned. For themselves and their families, and for the country which is in very serious trouble. So no wonder people are passionate about it. This is not intolerance but sheer despair for what is being done to the country by the very few.

Especially if people are saying they will vote for more of the same. Surely you can see that?

As we are all voters who will be able to participate in voting in the next Government, and to some extent decide on policy via the party or parties we choose, then to some extent, these threads and exchanges can help us decide which way to vote. Just as much as the Press or TV could.

The right to vote, imho, comes with the responsability to inform yourself, and listen to other opinions and arguments.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

It doesn't depend on Gransnet either.

Gransnet is not a government or opposition Think Tank.
It's just a load of older people expressing opinions.
Quite irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

No, I don't think so.

You aren't going to learn anything or change your views if you walk out when people try to explain things...

?

Your posts will still be there tomorrow. Forever in the ether. It's not like a conversation between friends.

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

You aren't going to learn anything or change your views if you walk out when people try to explain things...

MaizieD

^I hate to say Volver but the reaction to Truss will not last. They will begin to normalise what they are saying. It will begin to sound possible to some.^

Do you really think so? Do you think that when they put forward their plan for slashing public services, the NHS, pensions, benefits etc. to 'pay for' the tax cuts for the rich everyone is going to say 'Oh, yes, that makes perfect sense'?

I think a great deal will depend what happens to the state pension. So far, pensioners who own their own homes outright and have savings have been relatively protected (although they, of course, have children and grandchildren and buy food and fuel).

It's no surprise that the profile of Conservative voters is skewed towards the older generations.

If the triple lock is abandoned, the Conservatives will alienate many of their existing supporters. Most of the carefully manufactured culture wars will be forgotten when people are hit in their pocket.

LauraNorderr

The wealth creators are often innovators, inventors, they start small and create their own wealth, create employment and build factories. Pay taxes and grow their business. They’ll invest where opportunity isn’t capped.
Swingeing cuts in areas of waste has my vote. Empire building within civil service departments for starters.

Neither of those answers the questions I asked, I'm afraid.
I'll rephrase:

Who is going to buy the goods and services your 'wealth creators' are going to create the wealth with? Where is their revenue to come from?

Patients are waiting hours for ambulance, then hours more in them when they get to hospital. People are having to wait 2 weeks for a doctor's appointment. The health service is desperately short of doctors and nurses.
School staffing has been cut to the bone, those that are left have had real terms pay cuts since 2910. Schools sren't going to be able to afford their energy bills this winter.
Police firces are short of officers and 'petty' crime is going uninvestigated because there's not enough police to do the job.
The Environment Agency is failing to monitor the sewage discharges because they don't have enough Inspectors and they can't afford to prosecute offenders.

I'm sure others can contribute more examples.
Can you explain where the 'waste' can be cut out?

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Maybe it's a shame they don't. Maybe you wouldn't hold wrong-headed views.

PS. I've just scrolled back and realised that I duplicated MOnica's post and she went into far more detail. Sorry!

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.