Anyone still thinking of voting tory at the next General Election?

LauraNorderr Reducing the top rate of UK tax is unlikely to attract foreign investors because most of them don't pay UK income tax anyway.

Not only that, but many (most?) people earning over £150k (who are the only ones who will benefit) aren't entrepreneurs in the sense that they produce anything. They work in financial services and earn their money by shuffling other people's money around. They don't actually produce anything.

The real entrepreneurs in the UK are people who run SMEs, most of whom earn nothing like £150k.

We can agree on the cake. ?

LauraNorderr

The trouble with social media is that one person asks a question, by the time an answer is given the conversation has moved on. My comment re respect was in answer to Volver earlier. I think I answered, then got distracted before posting so completely out of sync. Apologies all round.
I have done other things since and just returned.
To answer Maizie, my original post was clear on the point that abolishing the 45p rate and not capping bonuses would attract the innovators, entrepreneurs, etc., to the U.K. these wealth creators are vital!to our economy if we are to be a better off society. Yes Maizie I agree with you that the state also has a role to play in investing in our infrastructure to grow our economy.
DaisyAnne, my feeling is that the wealth of the state should of course benefit the disabled with a good living income. My point about benefit capping was aimed only at those who are capable of work but choose not to. We have a huge increase in mental illness and I feel that some of the cause of depression is isolation. Going out to work, feeling that you are contributing to society, mixing with others, having self respect could help many and should be encouraged.
Of course there are issues such as childcare that need to be dealt with, perhaps better run by the state as are schools and after school clubs.
They’re just my views, which is what I thought we were being asked to give. Happy to read the views of others.

Psychologist or psychiatrist Laura you must be one of those. Can you show me one person you have come across who is capable but chooses not to work? One where you know all the ins and outs and how they are getting benefits if they should be capped? What makes you so sure this is the case? You talk about depression being made worse by staying at home. I have a relative who worked right up to the day their depression turned to extreme paranoia and they had to go into hospital. You paint a prejudiced picture.

I have said this so many times now yes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Getting a disability benefit can be like having another illness. Yes, that traumatising. No one would do it if they don't have to.

And the government lie. They lie about why there are so many not given benefits initially when they are then given them after an appeal. The government said that this happened with PIP because people brought in more evidence at the appeal. Those who did this were found, after a Freedom of Information was finally answered, to be a minuscule amount. The rest went through on the same evidence and when the assessor's reports were compared with the recording, with a very small number not being awarded the benefit.

You have been conned Laura and conned by the Conservative government.

Not everyone is a scientist nor an economist nor even a politician but surely on a chat forum even the simplest of us can voice an opinion. It really is just a chat to me. I may learn something, I may change my views, I may not. Surely differing views are what makes a chat more interesting, apart from cake of course.

Thank you DaisyAnne, I will watch your link with interest.

Hmmm.....Maybe I should have said a sixth former who specialised in classics trying to explain how they plan to make money to buy the school a new minibus.

Lots of ideas but none of them practical.

?

Monica, I do know that what matters is the entrepreneurial environment when encouraging investment and agree with everything you’ve said. The 45 p is a very small part of it, it is something I picked on for making some of my views known about the mini budget. I was trying to cover many points in a general discussion and not prepare a lecture for an economic forum.
No disrespect but this is just a chat.

volver

I respect your posts Laura but I am truly amazed at some of your opinions about this. It's like listening to a sixth former at a school debate. Sorry. ?

While unpacking my Tesco order Volver, I was thinking about your comment.
My law professor would start every lecture with ‘assimilate, critical analysis, argument’ he’d then follow up with ‘in the simplest terms that can be understood by any sixth former’. Seems I listened to him, he’d be proud.

I am sorry lauranorder, but I will press my point. My point about benefit capping was aimed only at those who are capable of work but choose not to.

Who exactly are these people who are capable of work but choose not to? How do they get benefits in the first place? This is the issue you keep skating round. Who has identified them? how many are they.

I am afraid I also think that you are being incredibly naive in thinking that banishing the 45p tax rate will have any effect on entrepreneurial activity in the UK. What really matters is the entrepreneurial environment. Currency stability, stable interest rates, government investment in blue sky research. Brexit drove far more investment away from this country than 5p off the higher rate of tax will ever attract.

It certainly will not attract entrepreneurs to this country. It is peanuts. For someone earng £100,000 above the lower rates and untaxed income, they will save around £5,000 on an income of around £150,000, a nice little extra, but not the kind of money that gets you changing the country of your residence or spurring on your entrepreneurial spirit. Anyway most people on those kinds of salaries, and certainly much higher ones employ clever accountants to manage their income in a way that keeps their tax as low as possible.

I quote again Lauranorder Also innovators and inventors, researchers and risk takers will come up with answers to our fuel crisis given the right environment and encouragement

Yes, but not British innovators and inventors. The government is currently investing billions of £s in huge white elephant nuclear stations that take decades to build when Rolls Royce is developing smaller simpler nuclear generators, based on the engines in nuclear submarines that can be built more quickly and safely.

Innovators and investors came up with a scheme for a series of tidal lagoons and power stations down the south Welsh coast, which could have provided up to 20% or more of our power demand. This area chose itself because these schemes need high tidal rise and fall. Nothing has happened because the government was not prepared to invest in it. The French have had a similar power station on the Rances estuary in Brittany since 1964. president de Gaulle opened it and it is still going strong.

It will take much much more than 5p off tax to attract the entrepreneurial talent we need.

Tax rates have little effect neither will removing the capping bankers bonuses. They are not entrepreneurs, investors, creative thinkers. They merely move money around and take a big cut.

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s really going to help isn’t it?

Do you not think it’s wrong that the government have made yet another promise in their manifesto that they had no idea of keeping?

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s really going to help isn’t it?

Yes, the commitment is not to do fracking in areas where there is local opposition. Can you think of another way to confirm that?

Unless of course you have a sensible government like we do in Wales, we won’t be doing it at all so they don’t have to ask us.

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s really going to help isn’t it?

Yes, the commitment is not to do fracking in areas where there is local opposition. Can you think of another way to confirm that?

LauraNorderr

Also innovators and inventors, researchers and risk takers will come up with answers to our fuel crisis given the right environment and encouragement. Bring it on.

If you really want to know what they are doing and why (or at least more than any of us seem to be aware of) I have put a new thread up which you may find interesting. I have put a link to the programme.

Do watch it through to the end as the whole flavour of Trussanomics is revealed over the discussions during the programme.

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1316108-Common-Ground

That’s really going to help isn’t it?

Germanshepherdsmum

MayBee70

They’re testing a field just by my house with a view to fracking. They haven’t just decide to scrap the ban on fracking imo. They’ve been planning it for ages. I think only people that vote for them should have fracking on their doorstep…

And how exactly would you calculate that?

Local referendum.

I respect your posts Laura but I am truly amazed at some of your opinions about this. It's like listening to a sixth former at a school debate. Sorry. ?

MayBee70

They’re testing a field just by my house with a view to fracking. They haven’t just decide to scrap the ban on fracking imo. They’ve been planning it for ages. I think only people that vote for them should have fracking on their doorstep…

And how exactly would you calculate that?

Happy to accommodate Volver. Must be keeping you warm all this gobsmacking. ?

I'm gobsmacked again.

They’re testing a field just by my house with a view to fracking. They haven’t just decide to scrap the ban on fracking imo. They’ve been planning it for ages. I think only people that vote for them should have fracking on their doorstep…

Also innovators and inventors, researchers and risk takers will come up with answers to our fuel crisis given the right environment and encouragement. Bring it on.

The wealth creators are often innovators, inventors, they start small and create their own wealth, create employment and build factories. Pay taxes and grow their business. They’ll invest where opportunity isn’t capped.
Swingeing cuts in areas of waste has my vote. Empire building within civil service departments for starters.

To answer Maizie, my original post was clear on the point that abolishing the 45p rate and not capping bonuses would attract the innovators, entrepreneurs, etc., to the U.K. these wealth creators are vital!to our economy if we are to be a better off society. Yes Maizie I agree with you that the state also has a role to play in investing in our infrastructure to grow our economy.

Thanks. LauraNorderr

But

a) Where does the money come from to pay these 'wealth creators' for their goods and services?

b) I'm glad you acknowledge that state expenditure has a role to pay. How would you feel, given the current situation, about further swingeing cuts to state expenditure?

The trouble with social media is that one person asks a question, by the time an answer is given the conversation has moved on. My comment re respect was in answer to Volver earlier. I think I answered, then got distracted before posting so completely out of sync. Apologies all round.
I have done other things since and just returned.
To answer Maizie, my original post was clear on the point that abolishing the 45p rate and not capping bonuses would attract the innovators, entrepreneurs, etc., to the U.K. these wealth creators are vital!to our economy if we are to be a better off society. Yes Maizie I agree with you that the state also has a role to play in investing in our infrastructure to grow our economy.
DaisyAnne, my feeling is that the wealth of the state should of course benefit the disabled with a good living income. My point about benefit capping was aimed only at those who are capable of work but choose not to. We have a huge increase in mental illness and I feel that some of the cause of depression is isolation. Going out to work, feeling that you are contributing to society, mixing with others, having self respect could help many and should be encouraged.
Of course there are issues such as childcare that need to be dealt with, perhaps better run by the state as are schools and after school clubs.
They’re just my views, which is what I thought we were being asked to give. Happy to read the views of others.

LauraNorderr

No one is asking anyone to respect a point of view they don’t agree with, but to respect that it is given without the need to belittle others.

Agreed.

However, it is fair for others to comment and even 'correct', with evidence to back such, if they know the 'opinion' to be based on false information of facts.