Elderly relatives who are lonely but are impossible

"Hithere, I thought it could be useful when the difficult person needs help or needs to know simply he is not being abandoned."

If the person is having a rough patch and being unpleasant but becoming themselves again shortly after- we all have been there, it is understandable

If that is how a person behaves all the time - it is honestly in their power to change it or understand a person may take so much before saying "no more" - aka "abandoning them"

I have seen cases where a person is catered 24/7 but claims to be "abandoned"
What else can you do in that case?

My mother was not an easy woman ,when my dad died they had been together for50+ years and she missed him .
She was angry that he had died and "left her" after all he had promised he would never leave her .She didn't want random friends popping in not even good friends .She only wanted my sisters and me .
I think if you can put yourself in their shoes and try to imagine how you would feel maybe you could be a wee bit more patient and understand .
I ,mainly me,looked after mum for nearly 13 years ,I cooked for her daily and I did her shopping etc,When she was incontinent I cleaned her and the floor or the chair .She would phone my godmother and complain she never saw me .
I used to get tired because I was working and had a teen and a 5 year old at the start but I never lost my temper with her.
I'm no saint but I cant imagine how I would be if I lost my OH .
I hope my children would try to see it from my view when /if it happens and see that I'm not being bad tempered or selfish on a whim .It must be like losing your reason for living

It saddens me when folk complain about their elderly relatives ,apart from people like Violet who has good reasons . Most of our mothers did their best for us ,cant we at least give some time back in return?

Hithere, I thought it could be useful when the difficult person needs help or needs to know simply he is not being abandoned.

Thank you, OnwardandUpward, for explaining the jargon!

Your not the stereo typical pensioner, Maywalk 😂👏👏

"I wonder if it's possible to mentally 'switch off' and think of something else when in their company, whilst appearing to be listening."

I have coped with toxic situations in a similar way, and I realized - what's the purpose for it?

I can do it as an exception, not the rule.

Big Louis and all who have really toxic relations of any age, I think the poison that comes from them is basically due to fear which manifests as aggressiveness of one sort or another. They don't seem to be able to know how to be more charming, and maybe this is stupidity, dementia, or simply a bad habit.

It's not easy being responsible for aggressive people who can't cooperate, and even trained professionals can be challenged.

I wonder if it's possible to mentally 'switch off' and think of something else when in their company, whilst appearing to be listening.

Biglouis, so sorry. Ruby28 I hear you. Violetsky as you put it so well we are loving these people while they damage us.

Unfortunately toxic old people were toxic young people who refused to take any responsibility for their own (bad) decisions because it was always "someone else's fault", never theirs. They support those who assist them in ganging up on their scapegoat until they fall out with them, and then they try to make a drama they are at the centre of and tell everyone they are the victim, forgetting all the nasty evil deeds they conspired to do against the true victims. (usually their kids or younger relatives)

I do know other very nice older people so I know this not not normal behaviour.

I think in some circumstances it can be a sign of early stages of dementia where it is a change of character for someone. The irony for those where that’s not the case is that the more they want attention the more their behaviours tend to push people away. My late father lived with us when widowed as he was lonely. He never complained, was very appreciative and took great pride and interest in his grandchildren. In previous years both parents had lived with us for a few months when my mother was ill but she needed more attention than I could give. I felt that the way they presented was connected to their own childhood attachment experiences. I regret I couldn’t have given mum more but I also know you have to protect your own mental health as well. Sometimes people also need to help themselves.

Bigloius

I hear you on karma

Sorry you had to go through it

For as long as I can remember - even going back into childhood - my mother sought to use ill health to manipulate other family members. Nowadays it would be said that she suffered from Munchausen. Any day out, family gathering or celebration was like walking on eggshells wondering whenshe was going to kick off on one of her "wobblers" as we called them. As a young child I ws often told that I had brought on such attacks by being "a bad girl" and of course I knew no better.

In later years, after I left th city I was born in, I saw less and less of my parents by design. They sucked the life out of me like emotional vampires. As her physical health deteriorated my mother had to have several operations. When she knew she was going into hospital it was like a global catastrophe. She would sit by the phone and ring, ring and ring until she had managed to tell everyone in the family about it. Later there would be a blow by blow account of the procedure.

My academic job involved trips abroad every few months. However I told my mother that I had to go to Paris or Brussels every couple of weeks. So I was unreachable most of the time. Thank heaven there were no smart phones then. There were mobiles but they were too expensive to use abroad. I had a mobile for years before I admitted as much to my family.

There was no getting away for my sister who lived 10 minutes drive away. When we were children she was the golden princess and I the black sheep. She certainly paid for it later. But thats karma.

That's a good way of looking at it @Imaround. I'm sure it must be very hard being very old.

I just wish they could remember what it's like to not be so old and realise they could attract people by being positive and kind. Indeed there would probably be no lonely older people if they all attracted each other and others by being so pleasant to be around.

I am living this with my Grandmother, who I care for. She is in assisted living, which makes it somewhat easier for me, but not by much.

She refuses to leave her room at all. She thinks the staff are all incompetent. As an example, she refuses to get her mail to her address now. It just come to me and I deliver it.

I keep reminding myself that she was, for 85 years, a very independent woman who has had to downsize twice, has out lived her husband, many of her friends and her boldest son. I am sure she has felt her control of her life slipping away. It helps me to find patience on the days when I am lacking it. I ask myself how I would feel in her position.

I do what I can and set boundaries and allow her to have as much control as possible.

So sorry to hear about your health @Debbi58 and your draining In Laws! I think when we go through things like bad health or other trials, it does affect our tolerance for nonsense!

I totally identify with what you say about feeling even worse when you've left it a while. It does make it harder to want to get in touch when you know 100% that you're "wrong" before you've begun.

My inlaws are very similar, they are in their 90's and fairly independent. They live close by and My husband is their only child, he's also been good to them and when we married ( 12 years ago) I got on well with them and had them over every Christmas. We usually had my 2 daughters and my 3 grandchildren here as well. It took loads of organising and was exhausting . Then my health got really bad , I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis as well as oestoarthrits and I was and still am very poorly. The last Christmas we had them here was around 6 years ago. They complained about everything, my father in law is a master eye roller . I rarely feel well enough to visit them with my husband, they expect us to stay several hours and listen to their constant moaning about everything . It's so draining, on the odd occasion I do go, I get greeted with , we haven't seen you for ages, which makes me feel even worse .

@Maywalk you sound amazing! I'm so sorry about your hips! I wish the Elderly relatives I have would realise how lucky they are and actually play scrabble. I do like a good game of scrabble!

@Caleo I appreciate what you're saying and I'm sure it has it's challenges. There is an Older Person's Mental Health Team for anyone who needs it for that reason and also many many groups for older people to go to and nowadays the internet to chat to friends. I'm not saying it's easy and I can't judge because I'm still of working age, so I don't really know. It's true about the manipulation.

@Violetsky I identify with what you're saying. I try my best to do LC instead of NC (can't write reasons here) but it hurts me. I guess though, it probably hurts us whichever thing we choose , whichever way we try to cope with what's been dealt us. I do find it hurtful to hear my siblings run down, their kids, my kids, me, their siblings, their parents, people they know... they literally have nothing good to say of anyone and I know as soon as they think I can't hear, they start running me down to others. The pocket dialled phone call proved it's still happening. No matter what I do it will never ever be "good enough".

Sometimes when I feel REALLY tired of it all, I just need to take a big step back. I know I am not "enough" for those people, so I need to be ok for those who I am enough for.

Grandma70s

Narc, NPD, LC, pocket dialled - I need a glossary to read this thread! It’s in some language I don’t speak.

Pocket dialling - the example that happened to me is 1 elderly relative was talking on their landline to another relative about all the helpful things I'd done for them (but not in a complementary way) Then, they lean on their mobile phone which rings my mobile phone, so I innocently answer it only to discover there is no answer, but a conversation I can hear because elderly person has the other person on Speaker Phone!

I listened for about a minute, horrified, then put the phone down and have never mentioned it. I am not happy with what was said about me and have never known if it was an accident or not. I assume it was an accident, but I don't know what to say to them.

Narc= Narcissist . NPD = Narcissist Personality Disorder. LC= Low contact.

Hope that helps.

Razzamatazz

I phone my 85 year old aunt about four times a week.

My daughter's boyfriend advertised his new short play release on Fb. It's about a lonely person who sits in his armchair with the phone and phone book, phoning random numbers, just to talk to someone'.

My aunt commented on the Fb ad that she knew 'exactly' how 'Roy' felt as her phone never rang either. My daughter alerted me to it, and we both laughed, sadly, so attention seeking.

But why don't these people phone each other? As I'm always saying (and fed up with the sound of my own voice) "there must be other people who feel like this, why not get together with them?"

It's very sad if someone is that lonely, but it is also the truth that on the occasions where someone does phone them, if all they do is say awful things about their other family members (who you know do nice, kind things for them like you do), you know you're going to be next.

Apart from everyone being different, with various values, and time demands - people do need to protect their mental health and time from those family members who complain to never receiving enough.

Self-fulfilling, really.

The OP isn't generalised it is specific

And I don't want to answer for Onward but I also don't want any ideas to get out of hand on her thread so I will just say, there is a history of parental abuse here

Old people living alone, almost by definition, feel vulnerable.

Some vulnerable people try to manipulate their friends or relations to provide ample evidence they are not going to be abandoned.

This is not pretty behaviour , and I hope I am being helpful in explaining the cause is not the old persons themselves but that fear has taken over their behaviour.

Onward and Upward, I never take words personally in an internet discussion group. I was discussing your point of view, not you.

Blimey!!!!!!!! don't cast all the elderly the same.

I am 92 and in touch with folks from round the world through my writings and website.

I would far rather have a ruddy good belly laugh each day to help the med's go down than keep moaning about life.

I cannot get out at all because I am housebound with breaking both hips through osteoporosis but that does not stop me seeing the funny side of life.

I play internet Scrabble and Face-time my family each night.

I consider myself VERY lucky to still be here at my age after the traumatic childhood I had with being cruelly treated by so called Sisters-of-Mercy and then going all through the war years and being bombed out twice, apart from being machine gunned.

It is surprising how many folks come to me from worldwide wanting to know what life was like over 9 decades ago.

Keep Smiling Everyone.

Razzamatazz - this makes me think about my erstwhile elderly neighbour who if you popped in for an hour wanted two, complained no-one took her out but was often "unavailable" as "just getting ready". She was "ignored" by her brother (who visited weekly) and she never saw her nieces and nephews (though they had family meals out with her once a month).
She said nobody called her and she saw no-one.
She had a (semi-retired) gardener with whom she had tea and biscuits weekly, likewise a cleaner who had been with her nearly 40 years who came twice a week.
Every other week she had lunch out with a "lunch club" and in-between she had daily pop-ins from our very kind in-between-us neighbour.
On top of this lots of local elderly gents (friends of her husband's) popped in on her and shared a tea or a whisky. Once, as I was leaving I even crossed paths with the local retired GP who was arriving. He said he was a friend of her husband and tried to drop in once a month if he could "just to say hello".

She was apparently doted on by her husband who never let her do anything but treated her like a queen.
I think she had never got over not having the one person she really wanted as he died in his 50s.
My other (kindly) neighbour who knew him could not speak highly enough of him and so I think it must have been a terrible loss.
Her brother did all her bills/financial stuff and looked after any repairs. She had no children and always said how lonely she was.

I felt really sorry for her and did a lot more than I wanted to... but oh my, how she could say the life out of you!

The one thing I will never truly recover from after estranging is that although these people were destroying me as a person, I genuinely loved them.

But love is such a strange thing at times, these people that we are given who cannot love us back and cannot love themselves.

I'm glad for everyone protecting their mental health from further damage and breaking these cycles.

I've always had depression because of what life has dealt me but actually I'm a cheerful optimistic person and that is something so important to protect