ID for voting - set to exclude young people

We have been over this ground before. The Electoral Commission found almost no evidence of voter fraud in the UK at all levels from national to local. Over half of infractions are failures by candidates or their agents to make proper declarations of expenses, etc., - nothing to do with voter fraud - and of the rest only one complaint led to a prosecution. It's the Tories trying to put their thumb on the scales and it's a waste of taxpayers' money.

Withoutroots I don't honestly see a lot of difference tbh. One is verification through the council/post office and one is through a university or NHS.

Yes but we don’t usually make or change laws based on “ more people must be doing it if we looked for them properly”.

Well lots of young and disadvantaged people don’t vote anyway, those that want to vote will make sure they get the ID as it’s fairly straightforward. Yes I do know someone who used his son’s vote ( son had asked him to) and it was simple, no challenges or checks, so to say it never happens is based on no facts whatsoever.

Petera said,

I think that Pluto is made of green cheese. Just because there’s no evidence…..

I hope you’re never on a jury. Normally juries convict on the evidence, but you don’t believe evidence is important apparently. No wonder some people get convicted wrongly.
I think the police and the CPS think evidence is quite important.

NotSpaghetti

Even if you agree with ID, how is this fair?

Well that was explained I think in the third or so post in this thread, there was a screenshot of the governments reasoning as to why the two were different. That being because one involves much stricter standards to receive it and the other is very lax in procedure. What comes to mind is that, because older adults receive more benefits than do younger adults, the government takes extra steps to confirm their identity, age, status, etc so that they do not give money to those trying to game the system in that specific manner. As such, the older adults with those cards have already gone through confirmation the process that the government now is seeking for young adults to go through. They could make everyone do it all again I’m sure but that would be a waste of money.

Apparently they can’t even begin processing applications for voter ID until January because the watermarked paper won’t arrive until then. It’s even possible that this may not be done in time for the local elections.

Imagine the extra work/time in polling stations for IDs to be checked against aged ID photos, and for women with face coverings, the need for facilities and privacy, for presumably other women to check them.

All this for a system that has been working perfectly well until now. It is clearly aimed at disenfranchising more disadvantaged people, as evidenced in the US.

Glorianny

Let's face facts some young people will be denied their vote, so will many poor and disadvantaged people who either won't realise what is required, won't do it in time or can't do it anyway. Strangely enough most of the people affected won't be conservative voters. Now some might say this was "stacking the deck" but I couldn't possibly comment.

I wouldn't worry, Glorianny, the Conservatives seem to have well and truly buggered their chances even with conservative voters at the next general election anyway.

Evidently for some reason having 2 homes and voting in both places is not considered fraud or it would have been stopped by now. This is a registration issue not voter fraud.

Let's face facts some young people will be denied their vote, so will many poor and disadvantaged people who either won't realise what is required, won't do it in time or can't do it anyway. Strangely enough most of the people affected won't be conservative voters. Now some might say this was "stacking the deck" but I couldn't possibly comment.

BeverleyJB

The ID is required for in person voting only. Very simple solution for anyone (young or old) who doesn't have a valid passport or driving licence - and many older people don't - is to register for a postal vote.

^What if identification is out of date?
This does not matter - expired forms of identification will be accepted as long as the photograph is a good enough likeness^

Quote from www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-identification-faqs

Anyone can apply for a Citizen card from www.citizencard.com.
Use the code FREEVOTERID to apply free (it's usually £15)
You have to provide proof of your identity just as you do when applying for a passport.
This card is on the list of approved ID as it includes the PASS holographic logo.

Re evidenc, one of my nieces in the US is doing research for a non-profit organisation into voting behaviours.

Maybe someone will do some here (UK) too.

The reasons given for the proposed exceptions affecting young people (in the cutting GG13 posted) seem reasonable. But people are putting forward good arguments.

I guess my view now is that it hasn't happened yet and, since it looks pretty difficult, perhaps it won't. Government has shown itself pretty useless at everything else.

maddyone

Just because there’s no evidence doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Or that people with two houses don’t vote twice. If there’s no evidence it simply means no one has bothered to look for evidence. I did see a report on television a few years ago where this was discussed as being something that can happen.

I think that Pluto is made of green cheese. Just because there's no evidence....

MaizieD

Baggs

As grannygravy and beverley have said, there will be a voter ID card available free of charge to people who don't have a passport or driving licence.

The Electoral Reform article says, it will be costing us up to £20million for each election.

Us. It's public money that is being spent on this unnecessary requirement.

It's not 'free'.

I think it will still be free to people who couldn't afford a passport or driving licence.

Isn't all the money government spends from taxpayers? There's no such thing as government money. Of course it's ours.

The ID that students can use in bars is specifically not permitted for voter ID.

As for the Voter ID card that people have mentioned here. This was something that was proposed to be put in place by over worked and under funded local authorities. Since January 2022 nothing further has been mentioned about it, nor is there any way of applying for one.

So, older peoples bus pass IS permitted as ID for voting, students cards of any sort is NOT. Please explain how that is fair??

Many students are really inpoverised, paying the rent, and fees and providing themselves with food is about as far as their money goes - so many most definitely do not have the hundred pounds required for a passport or even the money for a provisional driving licence. As indeed, neither do a lot of older people - but they do not need either of these in order to be permitted to vote.

I didn’t say there is voter fraud Maizie as well you know. I said there is capacity for there to be voter fraud. Nor did I say it could have been connected to voter ID, I clearly said that it would be possible by a person having two addresses, such as students, or people who have a second home. That is the biggest possibility for voter fraud.

Baggs

As grannygravy and beverley have said, there will be a voter ID card available free of charge to people who don't have a passport or driving licence.

The Electoral Reform article says, it will be costing us up to £20million for each election.

Us. It's public money that is being spent on this unnecessary requirement.

It's not 'free'.

maddyone

vegansrock

The reason there is little evidence of voter fraud is because there are no ID checks - so that argument is a bit weak. If you wanted to vote as someone else no one would know .

Indeed!

There is never evidence for anything unless someone looks. No one will find anything if they’re not looking. I’m not saying there is or isn’t voter fraud, I don’t know because no one has looked, but what I do know is that there is capacity for voter fraud. A person simply needs two addresses and to register to vote at each address.

The Electoral Commission looked at it. They found evidence so slight as to be negligible.

If you suspect voter fraud you should report it to them for investigation.

Without evidence you can't say that it happens.

Lock up those pigs, though. Just in case...

As grannygravy and beverley have said, there will be a voter ID card available free of charge to people who don't have a passport or driving licence.

Young people need ID to buy drinks in a pub or at the supermarket. Many have a provisional license for that reason. Many do have passports too. Mine used them when they registered at university.

If anyone is disadvantaged it's the elderly.

That's what I thought, Granny. I don't see the problem.

nadateturbe

nadateturbe

aggie

We’ve had this for years in Northern Ireland, it doesn’t seem to cause problems

You can get an electoral identity card aggie.

....And it's free.

There is going to be a Voter ID card for the rest of the U.K. for those who do not have any forms of ID according to the GOV.U.K. Website, free of charge.

vegansrock

The reason there is little evidence of voter fraud is because there are no ID checks - so that argument is a bit weak. If you wanted to vote as someone else no one would know .

Indeed!

There is never evidence for anything unless someone looks. No one will find anything if they’re not looking. I’m not saying there is or isn’t voter fraud, I don’t know because no one has looked, but what I do know is that there is capacity for voter fraud. A person simply needs two addresses and to register to vote at each address.