How do I deal with a rude 12 year old nephew?

My brother had a son like this as a teen, they tried everything, but ended up ignoring his behavior, treating him the same as the other children, if he didn’t want to cooperate it was his loss.
He did grow up eventually but missed out on a lot of activities, it’s one of the challenges of parenting. On balance girls can be more of a challenge

I have two adolescent grandchildren whose behaviour and appalling rudeness and physical and psychological aggression towards their parents are unbelievable. The next grandchild, aged ten, is sometimes well behaved and sometimes horrendous as he copies his next older brother. The youngest, seven, is still a well-mannered, loving little boy but completely loses the plot when he is bullied by the ten-year-old and spouts swear words I had never even heard when I was that young but he has learned from the 14-year-old.

There are two older grandchildren. My elder granddaughter, who will 19 tomorrow, went through a phase of "life is misery" and "I live on the dark side of the moon" when she was a pre-teen, rather than verbal or physical abuse towards others in the family. I was a bit way that too, writing endless awful "poems". She is now a completely lovely, thoughtful, quietly confident and ambitious young woman. My eldest grandson didn't have great teenage years and was very resentful of his mother's divorce from his father and her marriage to her current husband, although my son-in-law was, in every way but biology, a loving father who raised him from babyhood. He – grandson, not son-in-law – will be 21 in January and is currently living with me because he had to leave the place he was previously renting. He is a model lodger, loves his mother, step-father and family and frequently treats me to random hugs. He also comes and chats about his life, thoughts and girlfriends and my life – now and when I was young – not often, but occasionally.

I have cut all contact with the the 15-year-old granddaughter because of her extreme behaviour and aggression towards her parents, her selfishness and highly developed sense of entitlement. I do love her and she has never mistreated me or even been rude but I suspect only because she thinks I am a silly old woman who is easily hoodwinked. I am not. I am thinking of cutting all contact with her 14-year old brother whose behaviour is similar to hers without quite such a sense of entitlement, although he has a tendency to smash things, including interior walls of their family home, when he is thwarted. He also conspired with friends to steal Mr absent's car – probably for joy-riding – while he was dying of cancer. They failed to do so.

Their parents, who are both intelligent and loving people, are having an awful time and are distressed beyond belief. They have sought help from various sources – none of which has been very helpful. The other grandparents have had both teenagers living with them for several months – not at the same time – and it has wrecked them, causing severe health problems.

Adolescence and pre-pubescence are horrible and confusing times for most young people and their families. I wasn't exactly sweetness and light myself but we never had the internet and all the unreliable social media that is around these days. I don't think there is any way forward except gritting your teeth, reiterating what they need to know and understand about how life, families, responsibilities etc. are a two-way street and their own approaching adulthood. Of course they won't listen – let alone change – until by some mysterious process of osmosis – these things surface as their brains mature. At least, I hope so.

Not any kind of solution – sorry. Just persist.

When I got into my teens I hated family visits and /or days out. I was sure to end up with a whalloping from my father regardless of what I did or how well I tried to behave. I used to duck out and go to spend the day with a friend or at my gran's house. After age 16 I never went on a family holiday again. Parenting was a lot more casual then so 16 was considered acceptable for me to stay home alone for a week. My mother did arrange for a neighbour to call round but I never answered the door.

Barmeyoldbat

But he was shouting, shouting over people and I am sorry but that is not acceptable behaviour. If he is allowed to carryon with this behaviour he will think it’s acceptable and so someone needs to have a firm, yes Violetsky firm, chat with him and usually in my experience a word or two in private from a senior member of the family will do the trick. If he is not put on the right path it is doing him no favours for the future.

I so agree with you. If you indulge they are not having acceptable behaviour demonstrated to him. If my DDs had been like that at relatives I would have been ashamed to even expect to be invited back. Play a board game with him he would probably laugh in your face.

Nonetheless should say of the.

I have no idea how autocorrect even got there.

It has been my experience that 12 year olds are excited to be part nonetheless adult group and want to be involved in adult discussions.

They learn by being allowed to engage and make mistakes, including rude ones, and being led through the conversation and shown the not rude way as it happens.

As a parent, for me, it was annoying but an essential part of parenting. (Not going to lie, vertain parts of parenting is annoying).

Glad that the reason for his past behavior has been identified.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I have really appreciated all the comments made following my post. I have had a talk with his grandmother (my SIL) and it is obvious from what she told me that pressure is part of the problem. His father runs his own very successful business and is very 'driven'. Without going into detail, the great nephew has sporting commitments which entail training on two nights a week and events at weekends, in addition to sport at school and apparently a huge amount of homework. I am hoping that he will have relaxed a bit by the time they come to us, as they will have been staying over Christmas at a forest resort near to us. I have quite a few rubik cube and similar type puzzles for the two boys to enjoy and we have a tv in a room to which they can retreat. The 10 year old is very different to his brother - but isn't it always thus!

Adults shout over each other all the time

Barmeyoldbat

But he was shouting, shouting over people and I am sorry but that is not acceptable behaviour. If he is allowed to carryon with this behaviour he will think it’s acceptable and so someone needs to have a firm, yes Violetsky firm, chat with him and usually in my experience a word or two in private from a senior member of the family will do the trick. If he is not put on the right path it is doing him no favours for the future.

Maybe I misunderstood?

He has parents to "put him on the right path" and have "firm chats with him". It's not you or your H place to discipline him. My opinion.

If he is not put on the right path it is doing him no favours for the future exactly Barmeyoldbat. Any tolerance of bad behaviour he experiences from his parents and relatives, will not be exhibited by his peers.

But he was shouting, shouting over people and I am sorry but that is not acceptable behaviour. If he is allowed to carryon with this behaviour he will think it’s acceptable and so someone needs to have a firm, yes Violetsky firm, chat with him and usually in my experience a word or two in private from a senior member of the family will do the trick. If he is not put on the right path it is doing him no favours for the future.

Wow, hang on.
Wait until the visit and don't anticipate bad behaviour before its happened, the lad may be perfectly civil and having you waiting for him to misbehave - armed with an arsenal of put-downs - isn't going to create a good atmosphere is it?
Let him disagree with you, if he truly has something to say he is entitled to express it as long as he's civil. Just because he thinks your views are rubbish isn't rude, its only rude if he shouts you down or calls you names.
Ask him quietly to explain WHY he thinks your opinion is rubbish, and treat him as a grown up. It sounds as though his parents are treating him as a child and the only way he can express what he thinks is by shouting.
That is the time to stand up and say if you can't be polite I can't be bothered to listen to you. Then walk out.
Or you could turn to his parents and ask 'are you going to let him talk to me like that?'
Don't anticipate bad behaviour, he may be fine this time, and he will grow out of it.

Norah

Perhaps talk to him about his interests, engage politely.

Maybe ask his help with a tech issue, he surely understands?

I see no reason for either you or H to "make what is acceptable clear" - ignore his behaviour, he's not your child to discipline.

I'm in the ignore his rude behaviour camp too. And if you can find some common ground, utilise it.

Perhaps talk to him about his interests, engage politely.

Maybe ask his help with a tech issue, he surely understands?

I see no reason for either you or H to "make what is acceptable clear" - ignore his behaviour, he's not your child to discipline.

VioletSky

It's amazing what you can get put of children just by showing an interest in what matters to them and engaging them in their interests.

Too much of being a child is clearly defined. I remember our old school and you went in to a wall of identical drawings. Pretty but the formula so defined that the outcome was the same. Yet if you give a child a topic, a range of mediums and encourage their interests within it you get some amazing i individual outcomes.

Growing up shouldn't be about being what the adults around you think you should be. It should be about becoming the best version of you.

When you try to force children down your own ideal path and place heavy expectations on them to conform, they may try to please you or they may rebel

I totally agree with you and thank you for sharing your very insightful post.

Try to have some games he can play in another room. Ask him to help grandad with something in the garden perhaps.
On another topic, a teacher was telling me yesterday that she has had an influx of young Asian boys this term and they are so rude to their mothers and the girls in the class. They act like little princes even in primary school because that is the way they have been brought up.

Yummy

Show respect to children in order to teach them how to show respect

Too many adults show no respect to children and are shocked when they get none back

Yammy - this isn't a teacher dealing with a disruptive pupil (and yes, I've dealt with a few in my time). It's a great aunt (I think) asking about her niece's son, so not a comparable situation.

I agree with VioletSky. As role models, we demonstrate adult, respectful behaviour. Of course, the parents should discipline - but not distant relatives. If there were any problems, I'd be having a quiet word with the parents, no doubt.

VioletSky

He is 12, quite a normal stage of development really.

Best way to teach children how to be respectful is by showing them respect.

If he has opinions and ideas, listen as you would like to be listened too.

If he is rude, don't be rude back, don't undermine him by having an adult try to put him in some sort of place, just leave the conversation.

Children learn by example

It's not fun for most 12 year olds to hang out with older relatives rather than peers so include him as an equal with respect and you will probably get it back

Do you really believe that the way to stop bad behaviour is by showing the participant respect? Or are you chanting the recent teacher Mantra.
How about respect for the person whose house you are visiting whether you want to be there or not?
When I taught I had a child who was so disruptive he trashed my classroom and I had to send the class to another teacher for their safety.
I eventually sat on a bench and when he threatened to trash the computers I sat and looked at him and told him that if he did his parents would have to pay and that would be no more toys or treats for him for a while. He stopped instantly.

12 year olds can be horrid - but if ignored, with no audience or reaction, usually settle down. Why let a child upset you? I'd plan on keeping him occupied rather than correcting his behaviour.

No 12 year old I have ever met behaves like this. It is not at all normal but as long as this boy’s father allows it, he is doing his son a disservice by not teaching him this is unacceptable rude behaviour and won’t be tolerated, his son will be ostracised and unloveable. And, yes, many will ignore him.
The fault is that of the father, not this 12 yr old boy.

Isn't the whole point of these threads that an OP asks for advice and we each give ours?

I'm not the only one who has shared the same advice either so unsure why I am being singled out.

If you guys have a problem with what I've suggested

Ie:

Modeling respectful behaviour as adults

Showing an interest in a young person's own interests

Listening to their thoughts and opinions

Changing the subject if opinions differ

Leaving the conversation if it becomes rude

And instead would rather put the child in their place by either telling them to shut up and go away or using the male voice in the house as a more intimidating authority...

You do you

My advice is still valid

Golly what perfect children some of you must have raised!

He's 12, he's trying to develop ideas and judgements of his own. Perhaps he isn't doing it very well at the moment but it's obvious his father doesn't have any problems with the way he's doing it but his mother does. Not surprisingly he's ignoring both of them and any other adult who he has dealings with.
If you had a close long term relationship with the boy you might be able to work with him and change his behaviour. But he's only with you for a few days. Organise lots of activities out of the house and provide him with space and entertainment in it. Computer access/TV/ games consuls etc. Limit your contact with him. The most likely time of conflict then is mealtimes. Find out his favourite foods and dish them up, hopefully he'll be too busy eating to argue.

Sorry Violetsky you are wrong, his behaviour is not acceptable at ANY age, would you allow an adult man to behave that way, I don’t think so and it’s certainly not acceptable for a 12 year old. I think his grandfather telling him in a strong voice to join in the conversation in a respectful way or leave the room. He might take more notice