Elderly who fall at home unlikely to get an ambulance during strikes.

I think the NHS staff do get ‘properly paid’ Iam64. They know the rates for the work when they join. The strikes aren’t about that per se. It’s all about inflation busting pay rises. I don’t think the public will support this over time. Workers in the private sector can only dream about what the unions of public sector workers are demanding.

I think the bandwagon is being jumped on. To bring the government down at the next election. It might well work. Sunak seems to have gone missing in (in)action and Hunt is taxing us all until the pips squeak. I know we got 10% pay rise on our SPs but the personal allowance didn’t go up so we will all be giving some of that back to the Treasury.

And as reported in some newspapers, it seems crass to ask the Army in to take up the slack, covering for. NHS and Border Force officials when their own pay scales are lower.

A perfect storm is coming.

travelsafar

I keep reading about bed blocking being the cause of the issues for ambulance delays at point of entry to A&E due to lack of carers in the community. Surely everyone being discharged doesn't require a package of care when going home. They have partners, family and friends,are maybe young and relatively able to take care of themselves. It's not just elderly people that use hospital beds!!!!

That is true.
But many elderly people need the kind of care that has to be administered 3 / 4 times a day. People have jobs, they cannot ask for leave of absence on that basis. And families don't all live close together anymore - remember "on your bike" to find a job?
Sure, if it means popping in to make sure an elderly relative is OK in the evening, and you don't live 50+ miles away... and I'm sure that is what families do.
But some patients, who are well enough to be at home also need a period of recuperation before they can be left to get on with it. There are no more cottage hospitals, no vacancies in residential homes, too few carers for the number of people needing them.
This problem has been brewing for years and the consequences are well-known to government(s). They've done little about it and now it's reached crisis point.
I'm sure families do step up to the plate, when they are able to. But we don't live the way we used to - just streets apart from other family members. People take jobs where the jobs are... Grans on here live hundreds of miles away from their offspring, they've talked about it, talked about moving closer.
We need a properly funded social / medical care system for the times we live in now. But a government wedded to the small-state market economy is not going to provide that - hence 'care in the community'... on the cheap. And that's why we are where we are.

I wish they would open some of the little local hospitals which are now standing empty (well, our local one is). Then bed blockers could go there.

It must be difficult LtEve and yes, the time wasters are a problem. One girl was telling us her problems as we sat for so long in A&E, she'd been back and forth for 3 days and was clearly struggling with MH problems.
But at the other end is the fact that people are fit enough to leave hospital but need convalescence or care at home.

I am currently working in the control room of our ambulance service(due to injury) and my job is to do a clinical assessment of people who have been allocated a category 3/4 ambulance (a normal wait time of 2-3 hours or less) so I have a good overview on what is happening currently accross our trust.
I think one of the main problems is that we have lost the ability to deal with minor illness and injury at home. In my last shift I dealt with:

People who are normally fit and well and have a 3 hour history of diarrhoea and vomiting but want it cured.

People (again normally fit and well)who presented with breathing difficulties caused by a blocked nose associated with a cold

People with a chronic condition, known to doctors, who have been told that nothing can be done until a particular test has been completed, test booked for next week, condition has not worsening and is not life threatening but they phone an ambulance every day to see if they can get the test quicker.

People who have attended A&E, don't want to wait so come back home and call an ambulance believing that they will therefore get seen quicker.

People with hangovers(not all young either) who want an anti sickness injection to make them feel better after over indulgance at their office parties.

Cut fingers that have stopped bleeding.

Fractured/sprained wrists with family members who can drive and have a car.

None of these people got an ambulance because I managed to speak to them but there were a lot more who didn't answer their phones so would get an ambulance.
If more people used basic common sense then we would have more ambulances to go to people who have fallen in a timely manner. On my last shift they were waiting 6-10 hours, it is heartbreaking and I come home feeling totally demoralised by not being able to provide the care and compassion these people deserve.

And don't get me started on people who pretend they have chest pain/thunderclap headaches and have googled enough to describe it perfectly so they get that high priority ambulance, they then admit to the crew that they don't have chest pain/headaches they just wanted their minor issue dealt with quickly.

I called 999 when my husband had a stroke. I held on for 10 mins before speaking to the call handler, during that time the person who answered my call returned every couple of mins asking me not to hang up. I told the call handler my husband had a stroke about an hour ago, I wasn’t in the house but found him on the floor. I added he’s a stage 4 cancer patient. I was told an ambulance would be with me in 1 hour and 20 mins, to dial 999 if an emergency arose.
The ambulance arrived within 20 mins having been diverted from an earlier call. The paramedics were fantastic. We were 2 hours in the queue to A and E but my husband was admitted to one of the A and E beds.
This does not have a happy ending. But I’ve nothing but praise for the ambulance or nursing staff involved over the next 8 days.
Urmston - if the word vocation applies, it shone from the paramedics and nursing staff I had close contact with in this period. Their dedication and skill shouldn’t mean they don’t get properly paid.

The so called bed blocking issue has been around for many years. I started in generic social work in 1979 and it was alive issue then. The current government in the form of Mr Johnson announced its oven ready plan a couple of years ago. It seems giving money to the nhs rather than social care is the current plan. That will just mean the money is absorbed rather than targeted.

I keep reading about bed blocking being the cause of the issues for ambulance delays at point of entry to A&E due to lack of carers in the community. Surely everyone being discharged doesn't require a package of care when going home. They have partners, family and friends,are maybe young and relatively able to take care of themselves. It's not just elderly people that use hospital beds!!!!

A view of one clinician who is leaving the NHS after 28 years. Not an ambulance worker, but well worth the short read to get an insight into how the system is failing...

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/after-28-years-i-m-leaving-the-nhs-and-it-wasn-t-the-patients-who-pushed-me-over-the-edge/ar-AA150pab?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=0e6c3ab77e674c06ba46cdc5641fac6b

growstuff

Yammy

Urmstongran

I think I read it was the Scottish and Welsh nurses with a majority voting for strike action, not so in England. Less than half of the nurses in England wanted to strike but taken as a whole, the majority rules.

Maybe the English nurses felt their work was a" vocation",
like the SEN nurses of yesteryear who gave their whole to do the menial tasks that the SRN were not expected to do.
I was not a health worker but did a job that was considered "Vocational". I broke strikes along with a lot of other colleagues when we could not see children suffering while we were at home.

Did your mortgage lender take your vocation into consideration when you couldn't afford to pay your bills?

How do you know I had a mortgage? Where I worked children got their breakfast at school and extra clothing if they needed it even then. If We had gone on strike they would either have been at home unsupervised or roaming the streets when their parents just had today go to work to pay their rent never mind their mortgage. They didn't know what one was.

growstuff

It was a serious question. I have never been in an A & E where loads have people have come in shouting what's wrong with them. Most people come in, go to reception and then go and sit quietly, resigned to waiting. I don't think I've ever known what was wrong with anybody else.

Some people who were quite agitated were in A&E when we were there recently. They did go again and again to complain very vociferously to whoever would listen.
It was so overcrowded that anyone near reception could overhear what was being said, especially as people were repeatedly asked to speak up.

Others told other patients exactly what was wrong with them, how long they'd been waiting etc.

I would hazard a guess that you have never been in an A & E recently, growstuff.

Wyllow3

I'm clear in my mind, as every interview with an ambulance worker has clearly stated, it is not just about pay. It's also, about worker shortages, its about our ambulance service being fit for purpose.

Look....

we/the government have known about severe problems in the Ambulance services since the summer, haven't we?

we/the government were told absolutely clearly without any doubt that it would reach crisis in the winter.

So why didnt the Telegraph or whoever alert their reader to it then? Why didnt it/GB news ask for something to be done then?

Oh no, they just come running in because a respected group of workers say, "enough"

and blame the workers, "oh where's your vocation."

And yes again

Harsh? Really?

Yes, insinuating someone lives in an area where there are a lot of people with alcohol problems?
It's rude.

I took somebody who had sustained a head injury to A&E this summer, and he was taken for assessment within 5 minutes when we arrived, speed being of the essence if there is a bleed on the brain. While we were waiting for him to come out, a young man hopped in, went to reception, and when she asked him what had happened, he said a strimmer blade had gone through his boot - you could see it both sides of his ankle! I’ve never seen staff move so fast, he was whisked through immediately, and not one person in the full waiting room even murmured that they were more urgent. You definitely see life in an A&E Department.

Callistemon21

growstuff

It was a serious question. I have never been in an A & E where loads have people have come in shouting what's wrong with them. Most people come in, go to reception and then go and sit quietly, resigned to waiting. I don't think I've ever known what was wrong with anybody else.

I spent one Christmas afternoon and evening in A&E, yes, it did get fraught at times!

Some people can be abusive to staff too.

Do you live in an area where most of the population get drunk regularly? 😲 ooh, harsh!!

Hospitals cover very diverse areas in most towns and cities.

Harsh? Really?

I'm always amazed how some people have the magical powers to know everybody else's business. They're like the people who look in a supermarket trolley and know that somebody is receiving benefits and has a massive widescreen TV at home.

I'm not sure, growstuff, but 2 people did leave .

Zoejory

The last time I had the misfortune to be in A&E a young man came in, shouting and swearing and bleeding profusely. It was 4am and he was clutching his stomach and dripping blood everywhere. Police were called. Not a great experience. And no, I don't live in an area where we get drunken youths rampaging around.

But was everybody there for silly reasons?

I've just realised that I did once know what was wrong with another patient because I overheard the conversation with the staff. The man in the cubicle next to me had testicular cancer. He had come to A&E because one of his testicles was massively swollen. I think he was in the right place.

The last time I had the misfortune to be in A&E a young man came in, shouting and swearing and bleeding profusely. It was 4am and he was clutching his stomach and dripping blood everywhere. Police were called. Not a great experience. And no, I don't live in an area where we get drunken youths rampaging around.

Having spent many hours in an A&E recently, it certainly is somewhere where you see a very wide cross-section of society.

growstuff

It was a serious question. I have never been in an A & E where loads have people have come in shouting what's wrong with them. Most people come in, go to reception and then go and sit quietly, resigned to waiting. I don't think I've ever known what was wrong with anybody else.

I spent one Christmas afternoon and evening in A&E, yes, it did get fraught at times!

Some people can be abusive to staff too.

Do you live in an area where most of the population get drunk regularly? 😲 ooh, harsh!!

Hospitals cover very diverse areas in most towns and cities.

Wyllow3

I'm clear in my mind, as every interview with an ambulance worker has clearly stated, it is not just about pay. It's also, about worker shortages, its about our ambulance service being fit for purpose.

Look....

we/the government have known about severe problems in the Ambulance services since the summer, haven't we?

we/the government were told absolutely clearly without any doubt that it would reach crisis in the winter.

So why didnt the Telegraph or whoever alert their reader to it then? Why didnt it/GB news ask for something to be done then?

Oh no, they just come running in because a respected group of workers say, "enough"

and blame the workers, "oh where's your vocation."

Yes

I agree with you dragonfly. It happened with my mother, who died five years ago, so it was before anybody had heard of Coronavirus and nobody was on strike. She already had a hip replacement and her leg was at a strange angle, so I knew something serious was wrong.

There is nothing new in this situation. 5 years ago my then 97 year old DM fell at home. We rang for help. We were told not to move her. We waited 11 hours for an ambulance. When she finally reached hospital she waited for 4 hours outside A&E. imagine how many times she needed the toilet in that time?
It turned out she had broken her hip and once care was provided things moved very fast but I would hate to be in that position again.

I agree with you Wyllow. The problems have been there for all (except the blinkered) to see. I honestly think the government doesn't mind the strikes because then they have somebody to blame.