Violence in songs, poetry...

GrannyGravy13

I agree Doodledog once songs, poems and books begin to be banned we are on a slippery slope.

I do not agree with culture washing the past.

I agree with both of you that after moving to the birthplace of William Wilberforce and the City being twinned with Free Town Siera leone, I am well aware of slavery . I taught there for many years yet I can only remember visiting the museum once with pupils. Perhaps they go a lot more now.
I also have a coloured family who was some of the first policemen in England in my extended family. The first had been brought to England as a black toy and given freedom.
Books and poems help us remember the horrors of the past and remind us not to repeat them.

I think the Browning poems are in the same vein as Edgar Allan Poe or Steven King. They are chilling, but are meant to be read as such.

As I said upthread, the Beatles 'Run For Your Life' is (to me) far worse, on a number of levels. The woman is a 'little girl' who is threatened with death if she is seen with 'another man', so it's exist as well as controlling and violent. The tune makes it clear that this is not a character-led study of a psychopath, but a song to a girlfriend by a jealous lover. It's horrible, and if I were on a 'banning' panel (most unlikely ) and that one came up I would happily scratch if from radio play. Leave it as an album track, by all means, but it's not something I'd want to hear children singing along to.

The lyrics are here

NotSpaghetti

choughdancer - just found this. The Bohemian Rhapsody conversations are towards the end.

www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewire.in/article/culture/is-bohemian-rhapsody-really-all-about-freddie-mercury/amp

Fascinating! Thank you Not Spaghetti. And I agree with your previous post too about 'Young Girl'.

M0nica

I have read it, Grandmabatty. Yes, I have read it, and very chilling, apart from anything else, it is written in the first person, which I find rather frightening. At least 'My LD' is describing someone elses behaviour.

I am left feeling wary, almost of all Browning's poetry. These to poems together suggest something very strange in his psyche.

My Last Duchess IS written in the first person and all the more chilling for it.
I love the Browning poems that I have read, and I think that he is very good at putting over the characters of the people in his poems rather than showing any personality problems.
I have to admit I haven't read all of the very long ones!

M0nica

choughdancer My Last Duchess is a brilliant poem, it makes my blood run cold every time I read it.

The first time I read it, I had to re-read it to confirm the ending really was what it was, it was so low key.

It is in my personal file of favourite poems - and will stay there!

I have taught this at O level. Brilliant poem by Browning.

My father was a very violent man. He went to prison for it.
Who did he listen to all the time.
Billy Eckstine.
Nat King Cole
Al Martino
Frank Sinatra
Patti Page
Dinah Washington.
Sarah Vaughn.
Not a violent word between all these artists.

Matter not case

So do Izoejory people who are violent are going to be anyway, they dont need a song to encourage them.
People who want it banned because it is distasteful or because of the content dont have to sing it, or for that case go to a Rugby match.

Zoejory

It's a song. Delilah is a song. Despite knowing far more about DV than I'd like to be, the reaction to these lyrics confounds me.

When we know better we do better. Really, Norah?

I suggest you google the lyrics to the hugely popular No. 1 song, WAP, by Cardi B and see if we're doing better now. I reckon we should stick with Delilah.

Hip-Hop is filled with controversial lyrics.

I really dislike this way of cancelling art/songs/plays/poems that might offend a few people.

When I know better, I do attempt to do better.

It matters not CardiB is popular, WAP is vulgar.

It's a song. Delilah is a song. Despite knowing far more about DV than I'd like to be, the reaction to these lyrics confounds me.

When we know better we do better. Really, Norah?

I suggest you google the lyrics to the hugely popular No. 1 song, WAP, by Cardi B and see if we're doing better now. I reckon we should stick with Delilah.

Hip-Hop is filled with controversial lyrics.

I really dislike this way of cancelling art/songs/plays/poems that might offend a few people.

You could regard the songs as warnings that this is what men are capable of so take care.

I don't think "Young girl" is any more creepy than Abba's "Does your mother know?" both I suppose written about girls following pop stars.
Delilah is no more violent than things like "Banks of the Ohio"- "I held a knife up to her breast etc"

1987H2001M2002Inanny

Along with songs and other types of entertainment,has violence not been part of our lives ever since we were children? I'm thinking Punch and Judy,Tom and Jerry,Popeye and so on.It seemed normal to see characters being bashed.The newspapers and television are full of horrible accounts and stories.Im not sure anything can be done about it.

When we know better we do better.

Along with songs and other types of entertainment,has violence not been part of our lives ever since we were children? I'm thinking Punch and Judy,Tom and Jerry,Popeye and so on.It seemed normal to see characters being bashed.The newspapers and television are full of horrible accounts and stories.Im not sure anything can be done about it.

Lets not start on the opera repertoire - or shall we?

Last week I went to a performance of the The Abduction from the Seraglio ( another word for harem) by Mozart. The pasha is threatening to rape the heroine and his chief harem keeper is similarly threatening her maid. It all ends happily as they are rescued by the hero and his man servant.

Then there is Madam Butterfly, American sailor pretends to marryJjapanese girl, gets her pregnant, disappears and reappears with nice American wife, Tosca where the evil villain is determined to rape the heroine if she doesn't submit to him, and they all end up dead. I could go on.

Someone above posted about the popular school hymn All Things Bright and Beautiful - the first one I learned at infants school.
We did have a giant flip- board in the assembly hall with the words, but only in latter years has the verse regarding the “poor man at his gate” become objectionable to me.
Perhaps it’s a good thing that compulsory religious assemblies got dumped in secular schools. My kids aged in their 40s now-and their kids have zero knowledge of the existence of even the Lords Prayer! Which I find incredible.
And don’t get me started on the nursery rhymes… Goosey Goosey Gander, The old Woman Who Lived In a Shoe, and Three Blind Mice …Shocking 😱

Chestnut brilliantly put and exactly how I felt.
On a tangent here but I think the clarity with which Tom Jones sang his songs -all of them, along with Dusty Springfield just to mention two from the 60s, the diction was so articulate on these. But it was the music and the fantastic orchestral arrangements that made them so instantly recognisable and combined with the their voices they were anthemic never mind the sports terraces, we sang them in the kitchen whilst cleaning and cooking.
Many other songs I never knew the lyrics to for years anyway because they were so badly enunciated but I still loved them; still do.
Sound systems have improved and subtitles on YouTube etc mean everyone can “get” the lyrics now though.
I agree about the song “young girl” though and have grown to find it creepy.
Bang Bang Maxwells’ Silver Hammer anyone? That was Beatles but didn’t Lulu do a version …. it was a daft song anyway.

choughdancer - just found this. The Bohemian Rhapsody conversations are towards the end.

www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewire.in/article/culture/is-bohemian-rhapsody-really-all-about-freddie-mercury/amp

Gaga I suppose Gary Puckett's 'Young Girl' is basically saying not to get close as it's "way out of line" and the singer entreats her to go home to her mother before things go too far...

So maybe it's less risky than it appears 🤔

Clawdy

Britney Spears "Hit me baby one more time" didn't mean " hit" in that way, it was a slang word for getting together, like "hitting on someone".

We also have 'hit me with your rhythm stick' well what does that mean, sexual, musical or a veiled reference to violence? It is such nonsense to keep analysing everything because 90% of the time people are singing away with no thought as to the words. I know in my teens I sang them all and paid no attention to what I was singing. I think there were so many wonderful songs and artists we were spoilt for choice and the words and music just washed over you like the sea.

It is like some worthy wokery person who produced a list of sayings we should change to something more 'appropriate'

One of the 'violent phrases was someone talking about 'kicking something about' as in ideas. The wokery person thought this describe kicking a person about. Didn't realise the original phrase referred to kicking a football about. In other words playing with something, whether ideas or a ball.

I am not going to do the wokery gone mad theme, but what often occurs to me is how ignorant the people getting so worked up are, in that they frequently, quite literally do not know or understand what they are talking about and are too lazy to do proper research before pontificating.

Meanwhile, I have some ideas for our family holiday that I am going to kick about for a bit around the family to see if we can reach and agreed decision.

Britney Spears "Hit me baby one more time" didn't mean " hit" in that way, it was a slang word for getting together, like "hitting on someone".

I was only a child when I first heard Delilah and I can remember being horrified when I realised what the line ‘I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more’ actually meant.

Sitting here with a wry smile on my face some of the time.
How do we learn without a variety of literature/ lyrics.
tThe WRU sound rather silly to me as many years ago We could hear bawdysogs coming from a neighbours house. Asked. It was an LP of rugby songs. Some really filthy. Keep Delilah.

It’s the alcohol, I sang Delilah in Cardiff Arms Park, no alcohol.