Violence in songs, poetry...

I have to teach My Last Duchess because it's on one of the syllabuses I cover. I usually teach it from the POV of serial killing/domestic violence.

I've taught Britney Spears lyrics (hit me baby) and other songs with themes of racism, violence.

I might draw the line at Gary Puckett's 'Young Girl' though. Too creepy for words.

I think the level of domestic violence post matches is the same in all the nations Anniebach, so it’s not directly related to the crowd singing Delilah in Wales - I’d guess it’s most likely related to how much they drink.
I agree with others that a ban is not the answer, but education may gradually wean people away from singing it. I must say though from what I’ve seen the women sing it with as much gusto as the men at the matches, I’m not sure how much correlation there actually is in peoples minds, I think for the majority it’s just a song without the meaning being considered.

Thank you Casdon , I was thinking of domestic abuse in
England,Scotland and Ireland, they don’t sing Delilah

Anniebach

Is there less domestic abuse when Wales are not playing ?

Yes there is Anniebach
nation.cymru/news/senedd-warned-of-increase-in-violence-against-women-during-six-nations/

I have read it, Grandmabatty. Yes, I have read it, and very chilling, apart from anything else, it is written in the first person, which I find rather frightening. At least 'My LD' is describing someone elses behaviour.

I am left feeling wary, almost of all Browning's poetry. These to poems together suggest something very strange in his psyche.

The whole point of much art, including music, is that it should be challenging, thought provoking, controversial.

We are a;ll free to express our reactions and our opinions.

Is there less domestic abuse when Wales are not playing ?

I haven't, but I am just about to.

Monica have you read 'Porphyria's Lover?' Equally chilling

choughdancer My Last Duchess is a brilliant poem, it makes my blood run cold every time I read it.

The first time I read it, I had to re-read it to confirm the ending really was what it was, it was so low key.

It is in my personal file of favourite poems - and will stay there!

Iam64

GrannyGravy, I’m well aware domestic abuse is as old as time. I posted about the number of women who took the trouble to phone and talk about being upset by Delilah being sung when they were enjoying rugby because of their dv experience. I don’t understand how that could be in any way similar to girls in short skirts ‘asking for it

Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.

Songs, women’s clothing and their behaviour should not be held up as an excuse by men for their violence towards them.

(Posting quickly whilst getting ready to go out)

GrannyGravy, I’m well aware domestic abuse is as old as time. I posted about the number of women who took the trouble to phone and talk about being upset by Delilah being sung when they were enjoying rugby because of their dv experience. I don’t understand how that could be in any way similar to girls in short skirts ‘asking for it

I agree Doodledog once songs, poems and books begin to be banned we are on a slippery slope.

I do not agree with culture washing the past.

I heard the programme and was thoroughly irritated, every time that woman said the word "narrative" I felt like swearing. We need to get a grip or we'll just end up destroying everything. Romeo and Juliet were both underage, Caliban in The tempest is described as a dark earthy slave, Puck is used to administer mind altering drugs to make Titania fall in love with an animal, many authors, composers, artists etc had questionable political affiliations or proclivities. We can't just ban everything that someone finds offensive, we need to learn from our past and try to do better!

Yammy

What about what the English sing"Swing low sweet chariot coming for to carry me home", it's a slave song about wanting to go to heaven to get out of their hell. Maybe that should be banned as well. As everyone else has said where do we stop? Yes I laughed at why, why, why as well. Just the kind of quip we all would have made without thinking.

I have no idea why that is connected to sport, but in general I wouldn't be in favour of banning slave songs as if that happened they would be lost from knowledge, and that would be a bad thing, IMO. Things like songs, poems, dances, language itself say a lot about cultures and epochs, and it's important that we do remember slavery and how it was for the enslaved people.

I really like the tune Island girl by Elton John, but it is now quite controversial.

Iam64

It’s been good to see a debate about Delilah. It’s an uncomfortable truth that domestic violence increases after sporting events, particularly football. Nicky Campbell’s 5 live phone in on Delilah had many calls from women who wished it wasn’t sung at rugby matches because of their experience of domestic abuse.

It’s a pity imo to simply dismiss concerns as ‘woke’ about an anthem in which a woman is killed by her jealous partner . Woke is a term like pc gone mad that’s often used to deny the impact of abuse, slavery etc.

Abuse was around before Delilah, I doubt anyone intent on abuse/violence/modern day slavery is influenced by a Tom Jones song or any other song/poem.

It’s similar to saying girls with short skirts/low necklines are asking for it

I am against banning, but since it's the tune that really matters, why not change the words, as suggested by Caitlin Moran in The Times today? Max Bygraves scored a hit with a rewrite of the lyrics of Fings Ain't What They Use To Be, which the BBC would never have broadcast with the original lines in the Lionel Bart/Frank Norman musical, such as "Once in golden days of yore, ponces killed a lazy whore." "Once our beer was frothy, but now it's frothy coffee" was a bit of an anticlimax.

While we're at it, we could rewrite the offending verse of All Things Bright and Beautiful. Off hand, the only alternative I can suggest to "And ordered their estate" is "And left them to their fate," which perhaps isn't much of an improvement.

It’s been good to see a debate about Delilah. It’s an uncomfortable truth that domestic violence increases after sporting events, particularly football. Nicky Campbell’s 5 live phone in on Delilah had many calls from women who wished it wasn’t sung at rugby matches because of their experience of domestic abuse.

It’s a pity imo to simply dismiss concerns as ‘woke’ about an anthem in which a woman is killed by her jealous partner . Woke is a term like pc gone mad that’s often used to deny the impact of abuse, slavery etc.

I don't believe we should ban any song, poem, book, etc. If so then what next..
It's just daft.

What about what the English sing"Swing low sweet chariot coming for to carry me home", it's a slave song about wanting to go to heaven to get out of their hell. Maybe that should be banned as well. As everyone else has said where do we stop? Yes I laughed at why, why, why as well. Just the kind of quip we all would have made without thinking.

So pleased to see not everyone is bowing down to the woke brigade

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-11713813/Welsh-rugby-fans-sing-Delilah-Six-Nations-clash-Ireland.html

Ilovecheese

Sorry if I've been a downer choughdancer

Not at all Ilovecheese! You are just expressing your views.

Sorry if I've been a downer choughdancer

No, not doomed - just perhaps people will listen to words and consider where they are. There are myriads of songs to choose - Delilah tune with other words would still make a great sing. Words DO matter - I was shocked as a teenager to learn that a different view of murder was taken when labelled 'a crime of passion'.