Violence in songs, poetry...

Yammy
you can look at anything in a bad light if your so minded
How true. As evidenced here on GN.

M0nica

Doodledog The songs aimed at intimidation also bring the group singing them together in a unity of spirit and to inspire courage, but the words of songs like that do not need to incite violence, they just need to be a song where everybody knows the word and is singing together.

Liverpool fans use 'Abide with me' like that. It is aimed at intimidating the opposition and built up a group unity among the singers.

Yes, it’s like a tribal chant or war dance. It seems to be an instinctive thing, and goes back to primitive times.

Doodledog The songs aimed at intimidation also bring the group singing them together in a unity of spirit and to inspire courage, but the words of songs like that do not need to incite violence, they just need to be a song where everybody knows the word and is singing together.

Liverpool fans use 'Abide with me' like that. It is aimed at intimidating the opposition and built up a group unity among the singers.

hollysteers

The crime of passion leniency in law is interesting.
Murder is murder however it occurs.

Although a crime of passion is not usually premeditated, in which case it is manslaughter not murder.

The crime of passion leniency in law is interesting.
Murder is murder however it occurs.

The opera ‘Carmen’ has become problematic with Don Jose knifing her at the end through jealousy and producers scratch their heads trying to make it more acceptable now as it is so popular.

Amazingly, even though I have sung the leading role many times through the years, domestic violence didn’t figure largely In my thoughts! It has taken recent uproars to make me see it more clearly.
There used to be more of a blind acceptance of these things, but one thing is for sure, Carmen will never disappear as it means bums on seats.
(I’m singing her Habanera tomorrow 🎼)

I think that some songs can incite violence. The whole point of military songs and football chants is to intimidate the opposition. Some popular songs can be deeply unpleasant, and I suppose can normalise violence (and can definitely normalise dubious attitudes to women), but I don't think that a song like Delilah, which tells a story about a murder/crime of passion, rather than glamorising it, is likely to incite someone to murder.

"No way does a song incite violence." How about the Marseillaise?

I heard the Woman’s Hour piece on knife crime MOnica. Radio 5 live had a phone in on the subject this morning, so some good coverage. The interviewers took the line that drill music, like any other music, couldn’t be blamed for knife crime, for young men carrying knives.
The experts, the mothers of victims and the retired police superintendent were strong in the belief that Drill does promote violence with knives

Helenlouise3

Absolutely ridiculous. No way does a song incite violence. this was jut the WRU's way of distracting attention from the bigger issues that affect them

Perhaps they need to reinstate “Delilah” if only to avoid the shellacking they have received in the Six Nations so far?

Drill music can't be called a 'song' in the true meaning of the word. Google says:
'Serious concerns have been raised that drill music causes violence through the use of lyrics and imagery which glorify gang crime and violence. It is commonly asserted that drill content often contains specific references to individuals and groups in a way that causes violent acts.'

I am nt sure. I have been listening to Women's Hour this morning. On it was a woman who son was knifed to death randomly by a stranger and has been working with schools to try and prevent knife crime.

She talked about listening to drill music herself with other people and said she found herself becoming hyped up and vibrant hile listening to it. It wouldn't incite her to go out and knife someone but she said she can see how it could shape the perceptions of young people who listened to it a lot, so that they do get caught up into a culture of knives and threaats.

I don't think a song can incite violence in the way a movie or video game can, because they provide graphic visual images which can be played over and over again, both on the screen and in the brain.

Absolutely ridiculous. No way does a song incite violence. this was jut the WRU's way of distracting attention from the bigger issues that affect them

Singing songs that mention violence causes me no problems. What is unacceptable is singing songs encouraging or glorying indoing so.

Life is full of violence. It is in all of us, not necessarily physical violence, Mostly we channel it. Isn't running a race and being determined to win channelled aggression?

I don't see any harm in producers of radio shows having a bit of wisdom in choosing playlists to not play extreme stuff.

However, lets talk "Balance".

There is a whole genre of songs mostly by women who have escaped abusive relationships. Some are upfront, some subtle.
they helped me a great deal - still do having got out of a coercively abusive marriage last year. Let playlists include some of these too more often.

Upfront - Alettac -Love to Waste
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0X06v9yxE

Or the subtle but wonderful Sara Bareilles about getting herself back after such a relationship
Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine
www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM

"I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her,
and kept her apart from the things that she loved"
Lyrics from "Getting Better" by the Beatles! Such a lively cheerful song too.

There was outrage when the Dixie Chicks sang "Goodbye Earl", although not quite so much outrage as when they apologised for George W. I reckon every woman who had ever been abused by a partner, loved it. It didn't persuade women to kill abusive partners; it just made them feel better.

Iam64 I don’t believe the songs initiate domestic abuse, more that they could be seen to condone it.

I agree.

Additionally I have standards that I prefer not be crossed. If that means avoiding some music, I can avoid that music.

I don’t believe the songs initiate domestic abuse, more that they could be seen to condone it. I also accept Delilah is a great sing along anthem - if yiu ignore the lyrics
Thanks GrannyGravy for clarifying your comment about short skirts/do/deserving it. I should have realised what you meant.

Google tells me the Beatles song Run for your Life is credited to Lennon and McCartney but largely written by Lennon. The lyrics are truly grim

I also agree with GrannyGravy - we shouldn’t culture wash the past. Mr i was instructed by publishers that his history of social work needed amending because it referred to lunatics and cripples. He pointed out, it’s a history, they’re the terms user and there’s a piece at the beginning and I g the publicity saying words will be used in historical context

I do agree with prefacing, for example, a film that is very offensive even tho "historically" acceptable, with a brief statement. We can't take for granted that everyone who might listen or watch a film mightn't be influenced, but the brief introduction gives the choice.

I would like to think for example that my grandchildren were given this gentle reminder: we certainly did with DS, age appropriate. He didn't live through for example the Civil Rights movements in the USA of the 1960's nor the beginning of equality for women in the workplace. A bit of history is never untoward.

When I was young can remember thinking what a horrible song Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley was. I believe it's based on a true story.

I dont believe in banning but it's obviously absolutely fine for people to express the view that they find a song creepy or they dont like the threats of violence towards women, that is just expressing an opinion on the art.

The stalking ones are creepy imo.

The legal line has to be actual direct incitement to violence or hate.

Otherwise, debate, query. That's being culturally alive, not "PC"

Choughdancer I didn't explain myself clearly. MyLD is written in the first person, but that person is speaking to the silent unnamed listener, so there is distance between the speaker and the poet and the violence is second hand. The speaker spoke, and something happened elsewhere, done by someone else. In Porphyria it reads as if the writer of the poem is the person doing the killing - and enjoying it.