15 minute cities coming to your area soon

Yes petunia I have heard of this , it used to be known by the name of communism 🤣🤣🤣
Restricted movement, allocated slots for travel both in frequency and locations....... Daft idea by daft people.
I bet the authors of this crackpot scheme go where they want , when they want , such restrictions are for the plebs!!

I am in Co Durham too. But people dont do they, they do their majority of shopping in Tescos or Aldi, they may use those for picking up some items, but the concepts of people using butchers etc is something that for the majority if people isnt a reality. If you work ypu couldnt for example use the butcher in my village.

Just another hairbrained scheme from people who have too much time on their hands, and no knowledge of what it is like to live in a village. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’. Given that my County has few railways , no motorways and to get anywhere on public transport requires driving into the city centre to get anywhere else on public transport, and usually requires a trip into London before accessing transport to destination. I can’t see M&S or other like retailers coming to every ‘city’.
It’s another means of social control.

Galaxy

And the descriptions on this thread (not necessarily reflecting the scheme itself) are from affluent villages from a different era, I live in a very middle class village, the local shops are a spar, a chain bakers, and a butchers that has diversified into a deli/take away food place, and everyone does the majority of their shopping at Tesco or asda.

I don't get the 'middle class' accusation, Galaxy. I live on the edge of what is either a very small town or a very large village in a definitely not middle class area of Co. Durham, (which is part of the deprived North East).

It has two well patronised butchers, a brilliant hardware shop, a greengrocers, three chemists, Lidl and Aldi plus 2 other food retailers, newsagents, post office, a bank, Greggs and another bakers, restaurants and cafes plus a few other miscellaneous shops. GP surgery and a vet practice. All thriving. Oh, and a decent weekly market.

10 minutes walk in the other direction from my home, small village with butcher, convenience store, garage (sells some groceries), chip shop, and hairdressers and an undertakers. All well used. Definitely not a middleclass area.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove. This is what working class people use, not a vision of a middle class utopia.

Well in terms of an implementation group the numbers cant be that large or its unworkable but in terms of consultation there was a good attendance. I would say the majority of people in the village were aware of the plan which whatever I may think of the views of some driving the plan is an achievement.

grantante What you're saying supports the idea of 15 minute cities. They're not about the traffic flow systems, but trying to ensure that most of the facilities people need for daily living are within a 15 minute walk or bike ride for most people. They would make traffic flow systems unnecessary.

Galaxy

A lot means there were a large group of people who consistently were involved and even more attendance in the consultation events. I think the return on the postal consultation was very high, the stalwarts involved in the neighbour hood plan did use the local Facebook to tell us how to vote on the final acceptance or not, it made me smile.

But what's a large group? There's a very vocal group of people here, but they're actually a very small minority of people who are affected.

So far none of the various schemes for restricting the use of private cars in cities to relieve traffic congestion in the 1960s and today in the interest of the environment has worked.

Nor will they in my opinion, unless various steps are taken by cities and towns:

providing suitable parking areas outsde cities and affordable public transport from there to the city centre.

free use (or only a moderate fare) on electric buses in the city centre.

exemption from these restrictions for those unable to walk well or otherwise handicapped, or provision of suitable transport for them free of charge within the city.

Yes, this will cost money, but some of the cost will be available from what is saved on repairing street surfaces, as traffic will be less.

There will also be a saving in illness caused by air pollution and the cost of curing or alleviating such conditions.

Doodledog

* The traffic flow schemes are separate but have been linked by the conspiracy theorists. I'm not talking about GN, but in the media generally. In a 15 minute city NOBODY would be prevented from travelling outside their zone.*

Well if that is the case, why are you patronising those who have responded to the OP, which very clearly states that people (or those who can’t pay the fines, at least) will be prevented from leaving their zones more than twice a week?

I agree that housing estates must be very bleak places to live. There are lots of them surrounding my town, but no infrastructure to support them. People resent the building, as schools are bursting, doctors’ surgeries are not offering anything like a full service, whilst also continuing to take new patients, and those who drive are always complaining about lack of parking spaces. To be fair, some of the estates are too far out of the town centre to expect people to walk with shopping or children, so the residents need to take cars into town to the shops, increasing pollution and traffic jams.

To avoid this, all that is needed is for regulations on builders to provide schools, a health centre, shops and so on on a pro rata basis depending on the number of houses they build before they are granted permission. If public transport improved, which I and others have been pushing for for years, more people would leave their cars at home, and there would be no need to have zones or any restrictions on anyone else, as far as I can see, and no need for anyone to bang their heads against a wall.

I'm not patronising anybody. I'm fed up with people conflating two different issues and being distracted by irrelevancies.

A lot means there were a large group of people who consistently were involved and even more attendance in the consultation events. I think the return on the postal consultation was very high, the stalwarts involved in the neighbour hood plan did use the local Facebook to tell us how to vote on the final acceptance or not, it made me smile.

Well said LadyHonoriaDedlock. In my town, the local authority doesn't own any of the freeholds on shops. They're owned by private companies, many of them international conglomerates based anywhere in the world. I doubt if they even know where their properties are - they're just footnotes on balance sheets.

PS. I wish people would discuss the idea of 15 minute cities rather than the issue of traffic flow systems, which isn't the same.

Galaxy

Suppose that depends on your community, there is a lot of involvement in the neighbour hood plan here, I am afraid there is a lot of opposition to any new housing which I find a little depressing.

What do you mean by "a lot"? Yes, there's opposition to new housing here too - particularly social housing. People only care about their own house prices.

On the whole, people really couldn't care less about their community. They moan like hell if (for example) new parking restrictions are put in place which means they might have to walk another few metres to get their children to school, but couldn't give a stuff about the nuisance their cars cause to other road users.

cc buses in Bath are the original Badgetline which became half of First Bus, so what you say doesn't surprise me. First Glasgow has also introduced cancellations and service cuts. It's short of drivers because it won't offer pay rates that attract potential drivers.

The problem with town centre shops (and even more so the big private shopping centres) is not so much local authority owners charging high rents as the big pension funds doing the same. They, unsurprisingly, want ultra-safe investments for their clients and set their rents so high that only the desirable blue-chip stores could afford them. That's why, from the 1980s onwards, town centres and big shopping malls all had the same corporate brands and few independents (many more brands than corporations owning them of course, giving a false sense of 'diversity'). This has blown up in the faces of the pension funds of course, with a change in the economic climate and the way we shop bringing down such blue-chips as the Arcadia Group (Topshop, Dotty P's) and Debenhams.

I'd go back to local government ownership in a flash if local government hadn't been squeezed dry. A system of sensible rents could be the way forward to town centres as we knew them, as social destinations with independent shops, markets, cafés and maybe people actually living there, by encouraging small-scale enterprise rather than transnational corporatism.

Callistemon21

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.

Bus services round here are subsidised by Essex County Council. My district council is always fighting for them because we live in a rural area right on the edge of the county and I'm afraid those in other areas don't care about us. As ever, people only care about themselves and not the societies to which they belong. Maybe should be aware of such issues when they vote, rather than being obsessed with immigration and transgender issues.

For me, I would be concerned also if my grandchildren's school and out of school activities was in another zone(s) and I was restricted in picking them up in the car to ferry them here there and everywhere several times per week.
I think this attitude rather sums up the issue. The sooner we rethink our entitlement to go here, there and everywhere, the longer we can last until mass extinction kicks in.

Suppose that depends on your community, there is a lot of involvement in the neighbour hood plan here, I am afraid there is a lot of opposition to any new housing which I find a little depressing.

Loopey

Yes I did see something about this.
I expect the looney council in Bristol will think it’s a brilliant idea. We already have congestion charges and some cars can’t go into town without paying.
Lots of bus routes being axed
Good luck with getting shops to open in some areas.
Doomed to fail here

Traffic flow systems aren't the same as the 15 minute city concept.

Amalegra Just who are these "ruling elite"? Lizards? Davros party goers?

For goodness sake, look at the facts rather than listening to conspiracy theorists.

And make sure you use your votes wisely!

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon I agree that it's an uphill struggle, but I still think it's a journey worth starting. Acorns and oak trees.

I wonder how many people on GN have ever been involved in their Neighbourhood's Local Plan. It's a recurrent issue in mine and a reason why planning permission for new housing has sometimes been refused. Unfortunately, local authorities currently have neither the power nor resources to make it work properly.

Oh yes, but it goes ahead anyway, despite meetings with hundreds of people attending, local opposition and repeated demands for better transport and local infrastructure to be improved.

Not always! I've been to public planning meetings, which have been announced in the press and there's hardly anybody there. Some councillors are very much on the ball and they are very much aware of infrastructure and fight the corner.

The fact is that most people really couldn't care less - and then make lots of noise when something affects them personally.

They get hold of a mangled version of facts and develop a kind of hysteria. It's very easy for conspiracy theorists to exploit ignorance.

On the surface this sounds like a great idea, citing the old chestnuts of ‘community’ and ‘sustainability’ which are buzz wotds at the moment. I personally see it as a further example of how the ‘authorities’ ie the ruling elite, whether at a local or governmental level are attempting to control our thoughts, our actions and our movements. Can we not rather consider building decent and affordable housing for the population as a whole and not just for an increasingly compliant middle class? Together with promoting decent, forward facing jobs to which all could aspire through improved education? Who really knows what forms ‘public transport’/community etc would take? How would this be policed and enforced to ensure conformity? I find it extremely worrying and yet another example of a nannying state trying to control our way of life and freedoms. Would not EDUCATION be a better way? And making travel by more sustainable models easier and cheaper? Increasing support for communities to find their own way? As yet we we are not an authoritarian state, despite this model of governance having something of a resurgence worldwide. I would hate to see an uncomplaining populace misled into surrendering the rights, freedoms and responsibilities our forbears fought so hard for.

Yes I did see something about this.
I expect the looney council in Bristol will think it’s a brilliant idea. We already have congestion charges and some cars can’t go into town without paying.
Lots of bus routes being axed
Good luck with getting shops to open in some areas.
Doomed to fail here

Callistemon21

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.

I lived in Bath for 15 years until a couple of years ago and our bus service initially ran twice an hour, then once an hour if your were lucky, with pretty restrictive hours. I would guess that it is even worse now.
There are two universities there and the bus routes to those ran 24 hours a day, very regularly, and often empty. Ditto the tour buses.
When we left the council were on the verge introducing measures to restrict driving in the centre which meant that people could not even drive to a supermarket without paying. Tradesmen had to pay to drive through the centre to get to their work. They also vastly reduced the number of parking spaces in town.
The local authority owned many of the city centre shops and rents were so high that many banks and shops chose to close, and most independent shops were severely challenged.
We decided that the time had come to leave.

BlueBelle

Big brother is watching you sounds very restrictive !

No I ve never heard of it and don’t like the sound if it what if you need to travel by car to a hospital or similar weekly what if you use your allowance up and a loved one becomes ill and you’re fined for visiting or something I can just see so many downfalls
I remember years ago because of pollution in their cities Greece had a scheme where people could only use their cars on alternative days I ve never heard how that went ?

My husband used to work in Athens and said that people simply had two cars, each with permits for different days.

6 pages of comments on this topic already - lots of concern. I came across this interesting discussion on this subject recently on this link.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001j4j5
Good discussion on both sides.
x

People were protesting in Bath yesterday about the cuts to bus services which will leave older people isolated, younger people unable to get to work, children unable to get to school.