15 minute cities coming to your area soon

So local authorities need to liaise with transport providers and make sure there's a good network of buses, minibuses and subsidised taxis.
Yes, yes, yes, that's what I keep saying

But unfortunately the opposite is happening.

Planners persuaded us that the way forward was out-of-town shopping malls with free parking, killing off town centres, new hospitals out in the country which are inaccessible except by car, allowing new estates of houses to be built without the infrastructure so that people have to travel to amenities. Village schools closed and big hubs built so that children have to travel - but they are not allowed to use the bus service if they live within a certain distance so buses travel half empty whilst most parents drive.

Sorry, but this has been caused by planners who may now realise their mistakes but it is going to be costly to try to change the way people live.

First start with affordable transport - however they cannot get bus drivers so are cutting services.
Second - stop putting up parking charges around small towns. The shopping malls do not charge.
Third - no new housing should be allowed without the schools, the surgeries, the shops which are necessary.

Now they are realising that perhaps this was not the best way and that people do like localised services.

I worked briefly in a planning department very many years ago and permissions were given which should never have been passed and some of us knew exactly why.

Exactly, growstuff. People are terrified that their cars are going to be taken away from them. It's about me, me, me. I bet most of those who are up in arms about the idea live in nice houses in nice areas and drive nice cars to the big-box out-of-town supermarkets once a month to fill the freezer. I don't think they live in one of the huge peripheral estates of the 50s and 60s where cars are a luxury and libraries and other social resources have been closed down following the slow strangulation of local government budgets over 40 years. They are places like Blackbird Leys in Oxford and Hartcliffe in Bristol.

The estates shops fell victim to the superstores leaving only convenience stores selling undiscounted tins and, naturally, lottery tickets to con the poor out of what little they have on an empty promise of riches (and have you noticed that among the boarded-up shops there's always a trifecta of bookies looking smugly prosperous). The people who live there are caught in a trap, because buses have been pared right back and are expensive – never mind feeling hard done-by at the idea of driving out of your area only twice a week, some people can't afford to leave their areas once a week. Nor can they afford the luxury of a big enough grocery order to be delivered. Life in these places is grim.

These are the places 15-minute neighbourhoods will benefit enormously. Funnily enough MaggsMcG these areas tend to be heavily Labour-voting. Should it surprise you that Labour are more enthusiastic about the idea than Conservatives?

growstuff

Callistemon21

Doodledog

What we need is better, frequent, affordable public transport.

I'll vote for that, but I wouldn't have voted for Mussolini .

I'm still at a loss to see the right wing connection. Can anyone please explain without just repeating the accusation?

Yes, I'm not getting it either.

I just ignored it.

Did you read MaggsMcG's post?

MaggsMcG didn't say it was a right-wing idea.

I actually think there is something about looking at the possible consequences of not encouraging people to move beyond the confines of their local area, and I am left wing. I work in a Northern city with areas of considerable deprivation, it is an enormous challenge to get people to attend groups that are not in their local area, some view areas of the city that arent their 'own' as foreign countries almost. Now it might be that really good public transport is the answer to to this but there is something about it that raises my concerns.

Did you spot Conservative MP Nick Fletcher, who spoke in Parliament and claimed they are "an internationalist socialist concept" which will "take away personal freedoms"? Or Neil Oliver writing about "the idea of limiting our horizons to within walking distance of our houses is about preparing us for smaller, meaner lives lived under perpetual scrutiny"?

It's taken over from lizards and 5G implants as the latest talking point for conspiracy theorists.

It's chicken-and-egg because car-use-limitation schemes can't be introduced without sufficient reliable public transport in place, and the bus companies won't invest in advance, they only respond to visible demand.

The alternative days for car use by numberplate worked well in Paris (I thought) and they also trialled a scheme for bikes only hours where private cars stopped. Those could be tried out here without major expansions to P&R car parks or brand new P&Rs, as planned for Oxford..

Also, communal out-of-town warehouses for all the major delivery companies (Amazon, dpd , Hermes etc), and onward deliveries to inner localities 2-3 times a week taking all parcels. When you think, the current system is absurd.

growstuff

Callistemon21

Doodledog

What we need is better, frequent, affordable public transport.

I'll vote for that, but I wouldn't have voted for Mussolini .

I'm still at a loss to see the right wing connection. Can anyone please explain without just repeating the accusation?

Yes, I'm not getting it either.

I just ignored it.

Did you read MaggsMcG's post?

I always read threads before commenting. It's not always possible to join the dots that lead to a particular comment, however, which is why I asked.

If you mean the one about how Labour, Lib Dems and Greens support the scheme, then yes, I read it. IMO that doesn't make the zones a left-wing idea (I assume that those parties also support granny murder being illegal but that isn't a left-wing idea either). And disagreeing with something that a left-wing person believes doesn't make one right wing, does it? Assuming that one agrees with large state politics and government responsibility for welfare, one has (whether broadly or narrowly) left wing views, and the reverse is true for being right wing. They are not religions, however, and people can step outside of the lines on some policies without being a traitor.

Callistemon21

Doodledog

What we need is better, frequent, affordable public transport.

I'll vote for that, but I wouldn't have voted for Mussolini .

I'm still at a loss to see the right wing connection. Can anyone please explain without just repeating the accusation?

Yes, I'm not getting it either.

I just ignored it.

Did you read MaggsMcG's post?

SueDonim

I know of two hospitals where that’s happening, Growstuff. Local services were closed down and relocated at larger centres, meaning people had to travel long distances for not particularly complicated stuff (It’s understandable that high-tech medicine can only take place in a few locations).

That put pressure on the big centres, with not enough parking and not enough staff, because the people working at the smaller places didn’t necessarily want to make 50 mile round trips to work. They retired early or found other work. Then someone must have said ‘Ooh, I know what, let’s offer services locally, to save people travelling!’ and they’ve busily been trying to reopen the various units that closed down 20 years ago.

Good! I'm glad to hear it. It's happening locally too. A local hospital was earmarked for closure and redevelopment for housing. There was a lot of local opposition and some of the services are being returned with consultants' having outreach clinics.

Callistemon21

Hospitals became centralised because they can provide more up-to-date procedures and are supposedly centres of excellence.
Small local hospitals cannot ever offer the same facilities although it might be a good idea if Minor Injuries Units were reintroduced instead of people having to travel 20+ miles to A&E.

So local authorities need to liaise with transport providers and make sure there's a good network of buses, minibuses and subsidised taxis.

Minor injuries units and smaller hospitals/healthcare centres combined with expanded local community nursing could take pressure off expensive acute services and provide efficient outcomes for patients without the hassle and expense of stressful journeys to hospital.

Exactly Maw

Too much of it'll never work and what I like
on this thread.
I wonder why the people who do like these ideas can't have a chance to try them for a change?
Ask those who actually use buses how to improve them.
Where I live there is no direct bus to the hospital and most nurses cannot use public transport because it doesn't fit with their shifts.
So many small improvements could make a hellofa difference.

Galaxy

Asking questions is not seeing the negative.

Agreed. This is a strange thread. Discussion is not encouraged - instead anyone who asks questions is accused of being right wing and of negativity.

I still haven't seen an explanation of where political 'wings' come into this, but sometimes it feels as though they are completely misunderstood concepts, and used as generalised insults to those who disagree with the accuser.

Hospitals became centralised because they can provide more up-to-date procedures and are supposedly centres of excellence.
Small local hospitals cannot ever offer the same facilities although it might be a good idea if Minor Injuries Units were reintroduced instead of people having to travel 20+ miles to A&E.

Around the world there is growing interest in creating places in which most of people’s daily needs can be met within a short walk or cycle

If only!
That’s what life for most of us used to be like in towns and villages all over the country!
Then malls and out of town shopping centres, and huge supermarkets sucked the lifeblood out of our High Streets, and the vacuum was filled by chain coffee shops, charity shops, solicitors and estate agents.
Dwindling bus services and parking charges on and around High Streets completed the job.
I am sceptical- to say the least- that any reversal of this trend will take place in my lifetime.

Asking questions is not seeing the negative.

Siope many thanks of bring the truth as to what this new scheme is really about.

Obviously, so many people do not like the truth. As with the 'debate' about leaving the European Union it was so much easier to spread total lies. I find it most interesting that many of those involved in spreading those lies are amongst those doing the same about this idea.

Surely, anything new initiative which involves trying to cut down pollution can only be good. And, hopefully, this sort of scheme will encourage more public transport.

One of the things that I have found so wonderful about my move three years ago is that I now live within 10-15 walk (okay I use my mobility scooter), for all the groups and meetings I attend over the course of each week. I got rid of my car as it was just sitting in my garage most of the time. Use buses and trains for longer journeys.

Never understand why people always look for negatives instead of positive in new suggestions.

Do they? Tescos profits were 2.5 billion in 2022. If you want people to shop locally you would need to provide local large supermarkets.

SueDonim

I don’t want to have to go to half a dozen different shops to get all I need. I like going to one place and getting the whole lot done in one fell swoop. Also, I can’t carry it all home so I’d have to make multiple journeys. And would all these little shops be open until late so people who work all day can shop?

I truly can’t see this idea flying.

I don't even like shopping, which is why I buy so much online. Nobody's forcing anybody to go to small shops, but lots of people do like them.

I think it's an excellent idea.

Callistemon I'm fortunate enough to live in a small town, where I am a 15 minute walk away from a range of local shops (including a fishmonger, two butchers and traditional greengrocers), a twice weekly market, a leisure centre/swimming pool, good schools, dentists, GPs, cafes and restaurants, a library, a cinema, a concert hall and theatre. Unfortunately, we no longer have a police station and the station is a bit out of town, but there are buses. We even have a PCSO, who rides around on his bike and sings in his spare time.

That's why people want to live here and the property prices are so high. The 15 minute idea is a good one. It's absolutely bonkers that it's been picked up by the conspiracy theory nutters.

Now I understand where the idea that this is some kind of conspiracy to control us all comes from:

www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2023/02/09/tory-mp-uses-conspiracy-theory-in-uk-parliament-against-15-minute-city-concept/?sh=7875844e56ef

For those who are interested in the concept, the Town and Country Planning Association have some resources and information

tcpa.org.uk/collection/the-20-minute-neighbourhood/

I'll be well past shopping if I'm still here 🙂

I used to like our local shops and use them regularly but they started disappearing 20 years ago.

Planners have consulted. Again and again people say they want local shops. But of course those who don’t can still go to large supermarkets.

Given that the few English cities that are planning orotund this concept are 20 years or more from delivering, I imagine I’ll never know whether it worked here or not. I shall watch Paris with interest though.

Well, how much choice do people want in their everyday shopping?

Shopping habits have changed because planners ensured they did when they approved out-of-town shopping malls.
Most people don't shop daily.

When I lived in Sheffield more years ago than I care to remember, it was a 10 minute walk from our flat down to the main road where there was a butcher, a greengrocer and a bakers, paper shop and launderette* (probably one or two more that I can't remember). If we wanted dry goods or fish there was an excellent, cheap bus service to the city centre, where, of course all the other shops were available

Years ago in small towns there were all those shops plus clothes shops, shoe shops, Woolworths, chemists, stationers etc then came the planned shopping malls and small town centres offering a wide range of shops just closed down, shop by shop. Regular public transport went to and from the malls, then that was cut down and people were forced to use cars.

Perhaps if planners consulted people, sought their views on how they think everything can be improved for the future, instead of trying to manipulate our behaviour to change the way we live, then improvements in the future might be realistically achieved. .

I don’t want to have to go to half a dozen different shops to get all I need. I like going to one place and getting the whole lot done in one fell swoop. Also, I can’t carry it all home so I’d have to make multiple journeys. And would all these little shops be open until late so people who work all day can shop?

I truly can’t see this idea flying.