15 minute cities coming to your area soon

Callistemon21 I'm definitely having more of them than I used to.

Sorry, senior moment. As you were on that one
😀 we all have them!!

Everybody, here and elsewhere, seems to want to look for the edge cases, the ones where the basic idea isn't perfect, and use them to dismiss the idea completely

After a long career in IT I know all about the edge cases. The things that don't fit conveniently into the proposed structure. The thing is, you don't junk the whole system because of the anomalies, you adapt the system to accommodate them or at least introduce ways to exempt them so that even though they don't fit they don't crash the system.

The way to look at 15-minute communities is to look at the benefits of the idea as whole for most people involved, then consider the things that could possibly go wrong and adjust for them. Not to deliberately go looking for reasons do dismiss the plan.

growstuff

Dickens Nobody would be "penalised". What it might mean is that planners might consider the needs of disabled people and possibly (yeah well, I can dream) and build local healthcare facilities and make sure there is good public transport to hospitals.

According to the OP, fines would be issued if people use their car to cross zones more than the allotted number of times. Of course that's penalising them (if it's correct).

I'm all in favour of anything that makes life easier for non-drivers - I'm one myself, and I get tired of everything being planned on the assumption that everyone has a car and can drive to out of town retail parks or whatever. Public transport here is prohibitively expensive, there are no concessionary fares until SPA, and in any case buses are few and far between. Brining the provinces were brought into line with London would be fairer, but we already pay higher Council Tax than Londoners, so putting that up to subsidise transport seems an unlikely way forward.

As I've said, I dislike the idea of a 2 tier system that makes it even harder for people in poorer areas to make use of centralised facilities and cultural pursuits. It could ghettoise places that are outside the central zone, and the chances are that young people will not want to live in more outlying areas if they can only go out twice a week. They will move out, and it could be problematic for them to visit older relatives in other zones if that would use up one of their allowances. My mum is more than 15 minutes away from me - should I not be able to see her, or have to get three buses to do so?

I wonder if it's another scheme to 'encourage' people to go back to work, as if they can cross a zone to do that they could stay on to socialise afterwards and it won't (I assume) count against their 'allowance', or will people only be allowed to go to work twice a week? How many couples both live within 15 minutes in the same direction of their respective workplaces? Public transport availability is not necessarily compatible with working hours, either, and by no means all towns, never mind villages, are adequately served by public transport. My last bus home leaves the city at 10.30, which rules out most theatre performances, music gigs and so on. If (and it's a big 'if') money were allocated to improving transport I would be delighted, but that would require the government coughing up instead of making demands on councils then expecting them to find ways to pay for them out of slashed budgets.

Since I left work I don't go into the city more than twice a week - I did before Covid, but my life changed then, and my health is not as good as it was. It wouldn't make much of an impact on me (and I got the bus anyway), but I'm not so out of touch that I can't put myself in the shoes of those who do want an active social life, and won't be happy with shopping, health and the sort of recreation offered by small towns. Many younger people have good health and shop online anyway, so the attraction would be to move to zones where there is more of a 'buzz', and we oldies would be left on our own in deadzones.

Primary education could probably happen within a 15 minute zone, but High Schools are more problematic - many round here have feeder schools miles away - and universities couldn't possibly have a campus every 15 minutes that could offer a range of courses. Would students all have to live near the university? What about mature students or those with caring responsibilities etc?

As I don't drive, Mr Dog sometimes gives me lifts, if I can't get to where I want to be on public transport. Would that count as one of his trips, or would both of us get them allocated to one car?

What is 'right wing' about having these reservations, please? I don't understand that at all.

Me neither .... and I'm glad I don't

Well doesn’t really bother me as I don’t have a car 😂

I've heard Newham in London are considering ... as is Ipswich and Oxford.

There are 33 million cars on Uk roads so from a pollutant and ecological viewpoint something has to be done to limit the damge they cause.

Personally I think everyone has become so used to car ownership and the convenience it offers over public transport that no one will like this system nor will they sacrifice their cars ..
Was it Finland who opted instead for the alternating days system based on car registration?

I wonder where EV's fit in here.

Simple! They use the car! What's stopping them?

Or maybe ...

Town planners might consider building local swimming pools, etc.

A dd lives about a 15 minute drive from the centre of Oxford - that’s outside rush hours, which frankly can be pretty horrendous.
I dare say it’s a good idea in theory, but what about getting to e.g. the nursery or childminder, which may well not be walking distance, and sundry children’s activities? Gdcs have weekly swimming lessons during the rush hour - it’s much too far to walk, and except for the smallest, they can ride bikes, but they’re still too young to cycle in very busy traffic, even with cycle. lanes. There is no convenient bus service, either.

The youngest is taken to and from the childminder by SiL, via bike with a trailer - he’s very fit and used to it, but it still takes a good 20 minutes each way. By public transport it’d need probably 3 buses and take forever, given that he has to take and pick up during rush hours.
This is besides working full time, same as dd.
Plenty of people IMO just wouldn’t be able to manage that.

We are just very thankful that the school where the 2 elder go is a short walk away.
I dare say this scheme will cause a great many people - perhaps particularly parents of younger children - a great deal of inconvenience, and will cost the current council a lot of votes next time.

MOnica It's not a scheme. It's a consideration to be taken into account when development is planned. I don't really see what planners can do about people who suffer from bus sickness.

I have never not been able to find a parking space in one of Cambridge's park and rides.

The other thing is the core of these schemes is bus travel and it doesn't take into account people who find bus travel difficult because of travel sickness.

I avoid buses for just that reason because urban buses with their stops and starts and jerks and smells are the ones most likely to induce it.

I prefer if at all possible to walk, but some distances are just too far, or take too long.

I can't remember the last time I drove into Cambridge, my nearest city.

If I go shopping or the cinema/theatre, I use the park and ride. When I was attending hospital appointments several times a week, I used the "guided bus", which is a special route just for the bus, which is excellent.

A big bonus of course is that I can use my bus pass.

Dickens Nobody would be "penalised". What it might mean is that planners might consider the needs of disabled people and possibly (yeah well, I can dream) and build local healthcare facilities and make sure there is good public transport to hospitals.

The Oxford scheme allows the disabled and others with a need to use a car to continue to do so.

The problem with the Oxford plan is that cars coming into the city from outside Oxford will need to use the park and rides and bus in, so far no problem, except that the park and rides are inadequate to deal with the traffic and, as Oxford is such an expensive place to live, most of those whon work in the city, in service jobs, whether in shops or eating places, or hotels travel in from surrounding areas.

I usually go to Oxford by train, but do on occasion need to go by car, and I have had to abort my journey because I simply could not find a parking place in the park and ride.

The result is, that despite moving to our current house because of its proximity to Oxford, we now rarely if ever go there, we have found other towns that are easier to access.

We mainly go to Oxford in the evening to go to concerts and theatres etc, and between the cost of parking in the town and the hassle if you use any other form of transport. Late evening services, whether trains, or buses are less frequent and can leave you with long waits at bus stops or railway stations in the cold and the dark and often the wet. Not fun when age is not on your side.

maddyone

^100 times a year is a good allowance for leaving your zone. That’s twice a day for heaven’s sake.^

When I went to school there were 365 days in a year, so if you left your zone twice a day every day, that would be 730 visits outside your zone.
100 visits leaving your zone twice a day would cover 50 days of the year.

Just saying.

But nobody is talking about punishing people for leaving their "zone" (apart from the conspiracy-theorists). It's about having the facilities people need for everyday living being within 15 minutes and planners taking that into account.

I don't think it's anywhere near being a "scheme". It's just something to consider when development takes place.

Just spotted the above post.

100 times a year is a good allowance for leaving your zone. That’s twice a day for heaven’s sake.

When I went to school there were 365 days in a year, so if you left your zone twice a day every day, that would be 730 visits outside your zone.
100 visits leaving your zone twice a day would cover 50 days of the year.

Just saying.

Callistemon21

^100 times a year for leaving your zone is a good allowance. That's twice a day for heaven's sake!^

No, it's nearly twice a week.

Sorry, senior moment. As you were on that one.

But if you are living, shopping and working within 15 minutes walk, even twice a week seems generous. I'm sure those necessary exemptions would include those with mobility problems. I really don't think the idea is to stop essential journeys by car, it's to discourage the non-essential ones. I can't see what's not to like about a scheme which takes away much of the need for cars.

Some would say the idea is reminiscent of that golden age (which probably never was) when we all lived in tight-knit communities where everybody looked after each other.

Ladyhonoria got your weeks and days a bit muddiedtyere

VB000

BlueBelle

Big brother is watching you sounds very restrictive !

No I ve never heard of it and don’t like the sound if it what if you need to travel by car to a hospital or similar weekly what if you use your allowance up and a loved one becomes ill and you’re fined for visiting or something I can just see so many downfalls
I remember years ago because of pollution in their cities Greece had a scheme where people could only use their cars on alternative days I ve never heard how that went ?

The system in Athens was based on a even/odd number on registration plates, so you could use your car only on alternate days.

Those who could, just bought an extra car (opposite of what they already had).

Athens still has really high air pollution.

Thanks VB000 that worked well then 😂😂😂

Theexwife

I don't know if that is the solution but something has to change. The traffic in cities is slow moving and the pollution from vehicles sitting in traffic is heavy.

I think service vehicles and public transport should be the only traffic allowed in cities.

That would also penalise those like my disabled partner.

He cannot - with the best will in the world - manage public transport for his hospital visits. Apart from the fact that there's no direct route so it would require a change. He can barely walk a metre and that takes him a long time.

There would have to be exceptions.

Galaxy

I avoid driving into our local city because of the traffic restrictions, I have to drive there for work but for leisure I now avoid going in, this means shopping is done online or in a retail park, there are consequences that might not be welcome by many.

I was wondering about that, too. Would it just mean shifting pollution from cities to the out of town shopping complexes?

Or would there be better public transport to service them.

Like others, I think it would need a massive improvement in public transport to be effective. And better facilities for people waiting for buses and trams. We might have been spartan about waiting in the rain, wind or snow for buses 40 years ago, but I don't think that we, or younger people, would be quite so stoical after years of jumping into the car and minimal exposure to the elements.

On the whole, though, I think it's a good idea; it just needs careful planning.

100 times a year for leaving your zone is a good allowance. That's twice a day for heaven's sake!

No, it's nearly twice a week.