Soup throwing again

Christ dont get into the MN debate on her, unless you have 5 years of your life to spare.

I am afraid I dont think you do know a lot about this issue Volver. Which is er fine, in the same way I dont know a great deal about all sorts of things. I gave you lots of concrete example, all recorded or a matter of record about what has happened to GC women when they have tried to speak to counter your 'wittering about free speech'.
Kelly J is not a feminist and has never said she is one. Lots of people who have concerns arent feminists, there are many different factors to the debate, womens rights absolutely, but also free speech, rights of children etc. People come at it from different perspectives.

Some extracts:

"Posie Parker doesn't speak for all feminists or all women, and it's disingenuous of Billy Bragg to suggest that she does."

"But Posie Parker and those who follow her are making it so much easier for people like him to imply we're all right wing bigots."

"But, my point is that by acting as if abortion isn't an essential women's rights issue, or one that can be traded for fighting self ID, and by courting the religious right in the US, Posie is harming the fight against self ID itself. It's a badly thought out, harmful, counter-productive strategy."

Not just me who thinks that way then.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4586847-and-this-is-exactly-why-posie-parker-is-a-liability

Haven't read it all, but the bits I have read are right.

GrannyGravy13

Putting on a dress does not make you a women, having breast augmentation does not make you a women, having your penis surgical removed does not make you a women.

It is biologically impossible at this time to alter one’s chromosomes, born a man die as a man, born a women die as a women.

Stating facts does not make one a bigot.

Well said (and true!!) 👏👏👏

Who uses descriptors such as *Gobshite"?

Things have changed since I was a girl.

It's a different kind of bigotry I am afraid to say men can become women.

Excellent post at 9.05 TerriBull, spot on. It's when the trans activists supporters start with the whataboutery nonsense like "well i havent got a womb so am i not a woman?" that you know they're desperate to shut women down.
Oh and your grandchildren, if you have them, are lucky to have a grandmother who's as honest, perceptive and engaged with what's happening to women as you.

Putting on a dress does not make you a women, having breast augmentation does not make you a women, having your penis surgical removed does not make you a women.

It is biologically impossible at this time to alter one’s chromosomes, born a man die as a man, born a women die as a women.

Stating facts does not make one a bigot.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Rosie51

Volver Apparently she said NZ was almost as bad as Scotland, or something like that. Made me proud. For the record the statement was that Scotland was bad, NZ was the worst yet, so not a source of pride for you Volver, just more you 'making it up' . Ironic really when I've seen you pull others up on inaccuracies.

Aye, still proud. We stand up against bigots, like her.

I KNOW glammagran.

It wasn't me who said Parker represents people with wombs.

Are we calling me a man now, 'cos we've run out of sensible arguments?

We have thousands of screen shots of violent sexual threats, women meeting peacefully being threatened and women being sacked and dragged through court. Please dont tell GC women what is happening when you dont have a clue.

Volver Apparently she said NZ was almost as bad as Scotland, or something like that. Made me proud. For the record the statement was that Scotland was bad, NZ was the worst yet, so not a source of pride for you Volver, just more you 'making it up' . Ironic really when I've seen you pull others up on inaccuracies.

Just to inform you volver3 that a (real) woman who has had a hysterectomy still has XX chromosomes something trans women no matter how much they may wish it can NEVER have. I take you are one of them such is your vitriol.

Did Enoch Powell rant about British values with his rivers of blood speech? Oswald Mosely?

There comes a time when you have to realise that allowing people their "freedom of speech" does more harm than good.

Yeah I was wrong about the arrest. Mea culpa.

Yes, it seems that things have gone down the road some of us predicted a while ago - women are literally being silenced.

They are not, for goodness sake. There's women all over the place. The new Scottish Cabinet is more than 50% women. Look at all those women on Labour's shadow front bench. There are poets and authors and political commentators all over the place. There are comedians and actors.

So I'm afraid the comment "women are being silenced" is just pie in the sky based on a victim complex.

Rosie51

volver3

Why should they be ashamed of themselves?

The arrested the juice-pourer and she's going to court.

How much do you actually know about what happened and how much are you making up?

The arrested the juice-pourer and she's going to court.

Can you post the link to this .....I can't find anything that says Eliana Rubashkyn has been arrested? I have seen they have deleted loads of tweets, especially the ones from where they've fled to Australia.

My, my my it looks like Volver is the one guilty of How much do you actually know about what happened and how much are you making up? no arrest eh, you just made it up? No wonder you didn't reply to my posts asking for a link!

Thanks Jumblygran for confirming I wasn't missing the reporting of the arrest. The scenes of them trying to get KJK to safety through that violent mob were absolutely terrifying just to watch, let alone be a part of. You don't have to agree with KJK to condemn that mob, any decent person would.

The 'Let women speak' sessions are to allow women to tell their stories....why is that so very scary to the TRAs? And for Volver's information the women that are stopped from speaking are usually those that storm the area and grab the microphone to rant 'Trans women are women, trans rights are human rights' and don't want to say anything beyond that.

Galaxy

There are threats of violence at pretty much every meeting of women who want to talk about this, its par for the course. Threats and violence towards people I might not agree with are much more frightening than views that I dont agree with.
Those who decide men should be in womens spaces dont care who they hurt.

Yes, it seems that things have gone down the road some of us predicted a while ago - women are literally being silenced.

There are many different ways of doing it - from mockery and sneering online that shuts down debate through to intimidation and actual violence.

Whether or not I agree with everything someone has to say, I believe that they have a right to say it. As this thread shows, however, the values that have underpinned 'British values' for so long are under threat, and we ignore that at our peril.

Somebody posted this morning that Posey speaks for the 52% of this population who have all the bits that make us women.

What that says about people who have had hysterectomies, I hate to think.

Anyway, I have all those bits and she doesn't speak for me.

Loads of people dont speak for me. I find the idea of stopping them speaking through violence much more frightening than any ideas I have ever heard.

TerriBull

MerylStreep

Volver
I think you’ll find that Posey is speaking for women like me and 52%? in this country who were born with a vagina, a womb, ovaries, fallopian tubes, all the bits that make us WOMEN.

Hi Meryl,

You are so right, Posy does speak for most women, the 52%.

I thought Volver had well and truly pissed off the last time she took umbrage but unfortunately she's living up to her name and has returned. What a pity! I think that "grow up" was aimed at you it's her pathetic default answer to anyone who substantiates their argument which flies in the face of her stance. I got several of those on a thread or two a while back. I think it's such a shame when people like Urmstongran disappear and we get gobshite Volver return again and again, she doesn't make Gransnet a nice place imo. I can't be bothered engaging with her quite honestly.

Rest assured you represent the many, there's an echo chamber on GN who dupe people into thinking they are the majority.

TerriBull

Do you have grandchildren Terribull? If so, do they know you speak that way?

I've never used the term "grow up" on here before, but it seems apt somehow. Not about MerylStreep but just about anybody wittering on about their free speech not being allowed any more.

Its not my job to make Gransnet a nice place.

And Parker most certainly does not speak for me. I'd be ashamed if I thought she did.

Its given men an excuse to attack women, and be on the 'good' side. This issue has taught me many things but the latest is to be terrified of those who see themselves as the 'goodies' they generally arent, much harm has been done throughout history under the blanket of 'kindness'.

There are threats of violence at pretty much every meeting of women who want to talk about this, its par for the course. Threats and violence towards people I might not agree with are much more frightening than views that I dont agree with.
Those who decide men should be in womens spaces dont care who they hurt.