Job applications screening for privilege.

The collection of data about parents and education may be related to this aim to create equality in the work place
To make opportunities more equal, we should invest in better, widely available and affordable career counselling. This would help young people take advantage of opportunities and make informed life choices
Marine Marty, 25, Youthwise member from Switzerland

This is related to the inequalities experienced from birth

The need for creating equal opportunities is described and discussed here www.oecd.org/stories/social-mobility/

Sago

He’s had a great offer from a client he had a really god relationship with in his previous role🎉.
Just awaiting the contract 🤞

Congratulations to him

I know someone in a very similar position, though the interview was done first and the job offered and then forms to fill in. All clear with parents and their education but having been expats for nearly 20 years clearance has not come through from one of the countries they had lived in and the offer was rescinded.

Glorianny

The collection of data about parents and education may be related to this aim to create equality in the work place
To make opportunities more equal, we should invest in better, widely available and affordable career counselling. This would help young people take advantage of opportunities and make informed life choices
Marine Marty, 25, Youthwise member from Switzerland

This is related to the inequalities experienced from birth

The need for creating equal opportunities is described and discussed here www.oecd.org/stories/social-mobility/

Yes, I think it is a positive thing. It obviously doesn't take away from the fact many working class chidren be encouraged to enter the work place immediately on leaving school but at least there should be proper guidance on what can be acheived through education and value is placed on it.

Your son should check with his union or with Citizen's advice whether it is legal to ask these questions.

I also think he should ask himself if he is so desperate to get a job that he is willing to work for a company that expects this sort of information to be given them.

The only relevant question to the job he is seeking is his own level of education - a prospective employer or the Job Centre is allowed to ask that, but not whether he was privately educated or went to a state run school, had free school dinners etc. and frankly what you and his father did for your living is none of their business.

If he wants to work for this firm, after seeing the application form I would suggest he answers the question about his own schooling then writes on the form that as a matter of courtesey he asked you and his father if you minded him answering the other questions, which you did, so until he knows precisely why they need this information, he will not supply it.

It isn't anything to do with his job really. It will be there for all levels of employment, both to monitor the type of applicants who respond to particular advertised vacancies, to assess the level of diversity in the organisation and to make sure that policies are in place which provide support, counselling and training to develop and fully utilise the workforce skills and enable everyone to reach their full potential
Why would anyone object to that?

You really shouldn't have to give all this information. When my son applied for the Civil Service he was not allowed to put any identifying information down. He wasn't allowed to put where he went to school and although he put his qualifications down, I don't think he put the grades down, only that he had passed. Strangely enough, it was the a job he was offered because he is usually discriminated against because he went to Public School. He was also discriminated in order to get into University having to get much higher grades than a state school child and yet my son had disabilities to get through to get his grades. Much to my surprise he chose not to declare those disabilities as he didn't want positive discrimination to get his place.
If you had looked at my parents' history, it would have been possible to say that my parents were lacking in education and from a lower class so maybe we should have had a disadvantage. However, if you looked at my sisters' education, they would have looked quite privileged as the Navy paid their school feels. What they wouldn't have seen is that one was slowly dying and the other was completely discombobulated by what was going on in her family life. It all seems a peculiar way to decide on a person's job form.

I really don't think people are reading the thread.

It has been said many times that this information is likely to be detached from the identifying information on the application form, and simply used as anonymous monitoring of all applicants.

No personal information will be attached to individuals, much less their parents, and the information will play no part in who gets the job or who doesn't. It will be used to influence things like where ads are placed, and questions asked on application forms and at interview.

icanhandthemback

You really shouldn't have to give all this information. When my son applied for the Civil Service he was not allowed to put any identifying information down. He wasn't allowed to put where he went to school and although he put his qualifications down, I don't think he put the grades down, only that he had passed. Strangely enough, it was the a job he was offered because he is usually discriminated against because he went to Public School. He was also discriminated in order to get into University having to get much higher grades than a state school child and yet my son had disabilities to get through to get his grades. Much to my surprise he chose not to declare those disabilities as he didn't want positive discrimination to get his place.
If you had looked at my parents' history, it would have been possible to say that my parents were lacking in education and from a lower class so maybe we should have had a disadvantage. However, if you looked at my sisters' education, they would have looked quite privileged as the Navy paid their school feels. What they wouldn't have seen is that one was slowly dying and the other was completely discombobulated by what was going on in her family life. It all seems a peculiar way to decide on a person's job form.

Your DS must have applied some time ago. Questions about the background and type of school have been in place since 2019 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47627745

There is a logic to comparing university applicants with the same A level grades.

If two applicants had exactly the same grades and one had enjoyed the obvious advantage of having been to a private schoool

varian

There is a logic to comparing university applicants with the same A level grades.

If two applicants had exactly the same grades and one had enjoyed the obvious advantage of having been to a private schoool

Yes, makes sense. GS has done amazingly well in GCSEs, and is on his way to great results for AS Levels. We are so so proud of him, he has put the hard graft in, and he is very bright. But there is no denying that his excellent private education, and support he got from parents and grand-parents on both sides, the fact he has hiw own bedroom with office space and computer, etc, etc- and a full timetable of lessons throughout Covid, has helped immensely too. Many of this friends with all of the above didn't all get same brilliant results (as said above, you can take to water, but ...), so it is a combination of many things.

He would be the first to acknowledge that many have not had the same help and support and amazing education, especially during Covid.

I'm a bit surprised, unless the questions are on a detachable to the application form, as suggested by Doodledog.

Apart from first job, it seems work experience, ability to do job well; not a 2:1 from Oxbridge or a first from a lesser. Fluff doesn't matter.

icanhandtemback My partner is an admissions tutor at a Russell Group uni. It isn't true that pupils from public schools and others have to achieve much higher grades.

The process is that all applicants are considered on an equal basis. There are standard required grades. However, some applicants are flagged if they meet a number of criteria. These include going to a school which historically has not achieved high grades, being in receipt of free school meals, having parents with no HE background.

If an applicant looks promising from his/her personal statement and has studied appropriate subjects at A level or has other relevant experience, but the only downside is that estimated grades don't meet the standard requirement, there is some flexibility to offer slightly lower grades, eg BBC rather than ABB. Universities want the best students and statistics show that students accepted with lower grades from disadvantaged backgrounds achieve just as well as those with higher grades from more privileged backgrounds.

The offer of lower grades isn't automatic. There is discussion and they are only offered if the applicant otherwise seems good. Some state schools achieve grades as good as any public school, so their applicants aren't "flagged".

My son’s state school education, by no means ‘amazing’, has, we think, been a positive benefit. Yes, he is very bright and got straight As and a First, but going to state schools has in no way disadvantaged him in the employment market even in the still-stuffy legal profession where he is now a partner. A potential employer knows what advantages a private education brings and that, even with parental support and their own bedroom, the same results from a state- and a privately-educated candidate are not truly comparable. One of my son’s university friends, from Eton, no less bright, has not fared so well … Having endured a couple of arrogant, obnoxious, entitled privately-educated trainees, who seemed unable to think for themselves because they had been spoon-fed their education and the way to pass exams, I always favoured the state-educated when interviewing, and didn’t regret it.

Well done your son, ,*GMSM*.

You did the right thing to send him to a community school

icanhandthemback

You really shouldn't have to give all this information. When my son applied for the Civil Service he was not allowed to put any identifying information down. He wasn't allowed to put where he went to school and although he put his qualifications down, I don't think he put the grades down, only that he had passed. Strangely enough, it was the a job he was offered because he is usually discriminated against because he went to Public School. He was also discriminated in order to get into University having to get much higher grades than a state school child and yet my son had disabilities to get through to get his grades. Much to my surprise he chose not to declare those disabilities as he didn't want positive discrimination to get his place.
If you had looked at my parents' history, it would have been possible to say that my parents were lacking in education and from a lower class so maybe we should have had a disadvantage. However, if you looked at my sisters' education, they would have looked quite privileged as the Navy paid their school feels. What they wouldn't have seen is that one was slowly dying and the other was completely discombobulated by what was going on in her family life. It all seems a peculiar way to decide on a person's job form.

I agree with all you say except “ lower class”.
We must shake this off or we will never move on.
Nobody is above or below anyone else.

*Sago, I have never thought in those terms but when my parents were younger, people really did think like that. I was using the term my mother used for herself rather than how I see people. I will however slap my own wrist! I agree with you.

They are on most applications and not “included” with the application (apparently) it’s to collect data around diversity and inclusion but there should be an option to pick “prefer not to say”

Germanshepherdsmum

My son’s state school education, by no means ‘amazing’, has, we think, been a positive benefit. Yes, he is very bright and got straight As and a First, but going to state schools has in no way disadvantaged him in the employment market even in the still-stuffy legal profession where he is now a partner. A potential employer knows what advantages a private education brings and that, even with parental support and their own bedroom, the same results from a state- and a privately-educated candidate are not truly comparable. One of my son’s university friends, from Eton, no less bright, has not fared so well … Having endured a couple of arrogant, obnoxious, entitled privately-educated trainees, who seemed unable to think for themselves because they had been spoon-fed their education and the way to pass exams, I always favoured the state-educated when interviewing, and didn’t regret it.

Agreed totally. So so many of our friends and OH' colleagues sent their children to private education at top schools, and most of them did not do as well as ours who went to the local Comp. They had to learn to organise themselves, mix with very different people, and so much more. In fact, throughout their career, this ability to mix and adapt, has been a massive plus.

growstuff, as my son didn't apply to a Russell Group University I can't speak for them. However, he was applying for the same subject as his other State School Friends, some to the same Universities, and his offers wanted much higher grades even though he was doing 4 A levels to their 3. He had many other strings to his bow such as mentoring, being a prefect and Sports Team Captain and work history so I am afraid I remain unconvinced about the weighting.

it is not all about Grades. As a specialist 6th Form Tutor (now retired) I know that the personal statement, and the teacher's long 'reference' count for a lot.

I agree with your posts GSM.

These days, they won't employ someone who simply can't do the job. A variety of backgrounds will enrich any organisation.

I'd be tempted to write back asking the company some questions too, eg. Who is the owner of the company? What did his/her parents do for a living? Has the Company ever been sued for mistreating or bullying employees? Do you spy on your employees? Has your Company ever been prosecuted for Fraud? See how they like it.

Yes, I’m sure you would if you didn’t want the job.

It's so interesting to see these attitudes. I once asked my DS, who has lost out on things because of positive discrimination, if he resented the way things were done. He said he didn't because he understood the difficulties and problems some people had always experienced, and not understanding that was the very nature of privilege.
Age sometimes doesn't bring understanding.