An autistic patient who had his penis removed is suing over NHS treatment given to young people with gender dysphoria

MadeInYorkshire I’m so sorry, I haven’t any other words to say to you

This is copied from the Times article re Herron:

He also started therapy with an NHS psychosexual counsellor, which lasted for 100 sessions over five years, after which he was told he would be discharged and that the only other treatment open to him was surgery.

He did seem to have plenty of counselling before his surgery to try and decide what he wanted to do.

I think that we will be hearing a lot more unhappy young people.

Thank you *Maddyone and *Rosie51 x

MadeInYorkshire I am so sorry this happened. I don’t know what the answer is, it seems to be a worldwide issue and it certainly is similar here. Words, words ,words but nothing ever gets done and the systems deteriorate weekly.

The report that severely criticised the Tavistock recommended that sensible, caring and very careful counselling and support services need to be set up to help young people and their families make good decisions through responsible Gender clinics..

It never happened.

Therefore is it surprising that people turn to the less regulated private sector?

But instead of demanding these, and the Mental Health Services so desperately needed and poignantly described by so many above, we are in the O/P criticising yet again whats gone wrong instead of shelling out to put it right.
Its cheaper that way.

I dont think it is easy I think it's highly complex. With very little reliable long term data to analyse what is going on. The high proportion of young people with autism in these figures has been known for years and people who flagged it up were ignored or told to be quiet.
It's been an absolute nightmare for many people working in the field who were just met with hostility. I was at training last week where the message was affirm and absolutely no questioning why people with autism seem to be over represented.

It is highly complex. On a simplistic level, many children who are on the autistic spectrum always feel different, don’t easily fit in and it’s a dreadful truth, are often excluded from children’s parties the rest of the class are invited to.
Their social isolation and areas of special interest lead them to the internet where they develop support and friendship groups. There’s a hugely active trans community on line. I’m not the only person in contact with a young person who has found their tribe this way - or have they?

That does seem a lengthy time but it gives no idea of the quality of the counselling .

Sparklefizz

This is copied from the Times article re Herron:

He also started therapy with an NHS psychosexual counsellor, which lasted for 100 sessions over five years, after which he was told he would be discharged and that the only other treatment open to him was surgery.

He did seem to have plenty of counselling before his surgery to try and decide what he wanted to do.

I meant to quote this post with my comment.

Those of us who have had a relative with mental illness know how very hard it is to “cure” or even make a smal amount of progress in bringing about change.

I can well believe that after all those seashells was still feeling that he didn’t fit in the world and that changing his body would change that feeling.

The urge to belong is very strong.

Seashells, Oh was talking to me so I didn’t check.

Sessions.

Lathyrus

Those of us who have had a relative with mental illness know how very hard it is to “cure” or even make a smal amount of progress in bringing about change.

I can well believe that after all those seashells was still feeling that he didn’t fit in the world and that changing his body would change that feeling.

The urge to belong is very strong.

We also cannot know how happy a person Herron would have been "either way". It's very human to find something or someone to blame for deep unhappiness.

I am also highly suspicious of the father trying to block the 20 yr olds decision. Controlling something HE doesn't find acceptable?

Yes, it’s hard to know what’s for the best for other people and 20 is an adult.

I can see it might be the fathers problem with acceptance.

I too thought the counselling was a lot and then I broke it down 100 sessions over 5 years is only 20 sessions a year- that's about 1 a fortnight, which means it was a long period , but perhaps not intense. It might be good to know as well if the same counsellor was involved all the time NHS services are renowned for staff changes.

It would be good to think that all of these cases were being examined and policies put forward that will build proper services for the future. But I fear they won't be.

Lathyrus

Those of us who have had a relative with mental illness know how very hard it is to “cure” or even make a smal amount of progress in bringing about change.

I can well believe that after all those seashells was still feeling that he didn’t fit in the world and that changing his body would change that feeling.

The urge to belong is very strong.

That is so true and we were advised to look at it as remission rather than cure.
When you are convinced of something in your own mind, counselling doesn’t always remove that condition and especially if ASC is involved, the sufferer is often even more focused on what they feel they need to do.

Lathyrus

Yes, it’s hard to know what’s for the best for other people and 20 is an adult.

I can see it might be the fathers problem with acceptance.

It might be, or it might be a genuine belief that his son hasn't had adequate counselling to help him with other issues that could be causing him to think he should have his penis and testicles removed.

It's not a risk-free operation and Ritchie Herron has very unpleasant and painful effects which are unlikely to improve.
It's not unreasonable for a parent to want their adult child to avoid that risk, if at all possible.

The point of the court case is that adults with mental health problems are being failed by the NHS.
As in Ritchie Herron's case, they may not realise for themselves until too late.

Glorianny

Here's an idea. Suppose all those who feel for this young man write to their MP and ask for more and better counselling services and mental health services for children. I seem to remember a promise from this government that every school would have someone responsible for the mental health of the pupils. I seem to remember a huge publicity event where members of the Royal family promised more help for people suffering. What has happened? Services have been cut in all areas. This isn't just a gender problem. Although the results in that area are headline grabbing. This is a problem with services for children and young people.
And children who do not get proper counselling will do as nanna8 has suggested and go abroad, if all that is done is restricting their access to surgery here.

I agree with you on this Glorianny and with your fear, posted later in this thread, that there is unlikely to be improvement in mental health services.

Anyone who has tried to get help for themselves or someone else with MH problems (beyond the level of GP prescriptions and possibly 10 sessions CBT) will know that the whole MH system has been in crisis at least since 2017 due to starvation of resources!
So the complexity of someone who is autistic and wanting help with gender services - well, very hard to get much at all.
Unless you can go full on private.

However, I do want to make the point that just like being gay, there are a number of people who from an early age genuinely are trans: yes, in terms of procedures very careful guidelines necessary, but do do not want to " medicalise" or "'assume Mental Health problems" that group. They are not depressed or autistic or psychotic or...

ie being trans isn't itself isnt a mental health disorder anymore than being gay is, although of course as we all know being gay used to be medicalised as an abnormality and there are still some who believe in conversion therapy.

I didn’t mean to imply that being trans was a mental health problem. I was really replying to the observation that he had had 100 hours of counselling which doesn’t sound like someone who is sure in themselves of who they are.

I don’t disagree with either the poster who thought it could be the father who was finding acceptance difficult or FarNorth who believes it could be a genuine concern on the part of the father for his son.

Sometimes it’s so hard to know what is the right thing to do.

I've just re-read the full article.

Herron was not diagnosed with autism until long after the process. Herron now blames those who didn't diagnose OCD and autism early on. I think Herron expected too much, frankly - went through a process and was old enough to make own decisions at the time of the operations.

Sigh.

In an ideal world every young person who presents with MH difficulties would receive help, but CAHMS services are struggling to function for crisis calls like suicide attempts and very severe behavioural problems atm.

IMO efforts should be targeted at highlighting need and treatment - not blame. Where will it actually get other young people? its not going to increase services, and if it gets taken up by those opposed to trans people ever being able to undergo operations its not serving the genuine and "well" transpeople.

The father/son dilemma is very complex, re- reading the article - father has been told the son could be taken away as he is attempting to coerce his own son. But son has an autism diagnosis. But should we assume that all people with autism cannot make decisions like this - surely not?

Who will “take him away”? He is an adult.

Does that mean that he’s in a care situation? Which would imply that he’s not able to make decisions about ordinary everyday situations, let alone one of this magnitude.

Here's what Ritchie Herron is suffering. He isn't the only one.

"Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat.”

How can it be a good idea to use NHS funds for an operation that can have these results, just because there is inadequate mental health care?
(Inadequate in quality as much as in quantity.)

I volunteer with one of the most capable, switched on to where you go for help young woman I’ve come across. She confronts authority who don’t give her answers. Phones, emails etc everyone she can think of to get help for her son with mental health needs.
But, this situation has nearly broken her. If this young mother can’t get the help I can’t imagine what less capable are going through 😡

FarNorth

Here's what Ritchie Herron is suffering. He isn't the only one.

"Today, despite multiple follow-up surgeries, my scar lines still weep, occasionally becoming inflamed and causing crippling pain. In the flesh cavity that was created to mimic a vagina, I feel mostly nothing, aside from the occasional stabs of pain. I can’t use the toilet properly . . . and no matter how hard I push or strain, a dribble emerges, which may continue for hours after I have left the seat.”

How can it be a good idea to use NHS funds for an operation that can have these results, just because there is inadequate mental health care?
(Inadequate in quality as much as in quantity.)

Its terribly sad that Herron is suffering like this, but where is your evidence of other similar operations going wrong?

Are you trying to say the because one operation went wrong, it should not be available at all?