Sex education in UK schools but not as we knew it!

Good post, Rosie. I think the 'cat gender' thing throws this into relief as surely even the most died-in-the-wool apologist for so-called 'gender' can't really believe that identifying as a cat is on any sort of spectrum of human normality?

It is, however, a short step from saying that 'gender' is something that can be optional (as opposed to the idea that behaviours commonly associated with gender can be chosen whilst staying in one's own sex), and that anyone can 'be their authentic selves', however inauthentic these 'selves' may be. It's just a continuum.

. . . some stuff about teaching name parts for sexual organs which is happening in some schools. Most teachers would support learning the proper names for things.
I taught my children 'proper names' for things from babyhood, and obviously, I therefore agree that it is a sensible thing to do; but frankly it is not the place of teachers to make those decisions on behalf of parents of young children. When it comes to biology classes, of course children have to know what a penis is, and that it is not a willy or a todger, or whatever it is called at home, as well as the difference between a vagina and a vulva. I do wonder, however, how this can be done when Some People seem to think that a penis is whatever people want it to be, and that men or women can have them.

There seems to be a massive disconnect between wanting schools to dictate about the use of euphemisms, and also being able to teach biologically incorrect information about reproduction and sex. The sexuality aspects of this are frankly appalling, IMO. How is it 'homophobic' to call out someone who 'identifies' as a cat, but not to claim that homosexuality is same-gender, rather than same-sex attraction?

Rosie51

^I fully agree she doesn't handle it well, but possibly she has had little training and very little preparation for dealing with such things.^ then she shouldn't pontificate in the way she did.
If I had a child of 12/13 who was asserting they were cat gender (what does that even mean), I'd be seeking help and therapy for the child exactly as I would if my child was obviously anorexic but convinced they were fat. The girls weren't abusive to the other girl, they simply believe the fact that sex is biological and immutable, and that a girl can't be a cat. Do you think those girls should be forced to believe in gender identities, or keep silent? Would you agree with them being compelled to believe in any other person's belief, say Judaism or reincarnation? Should atheists never say they don't believe in any gods for fear of offending those with religious beliefs?

Well said.

Mollygo

Germanshepherdsmum

Oh, no. Not another of these threads.

Oh yes . . . GSM and it will go the whole length, diversions etc.
Are we to believe that Mermaids and the Tavistock clinic and others who have done such harm all do that because they read the DM?
Or even that all teachers and obviously teaching assistants, who read the DM deserve the suggestion implied by VS.

Agreed
Thank you for posting this.

Policy doc from the .gov.uk site. Can't rely on any 'news' any more - they only prioritise clickbait. educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/03/10/what-do-children-and-young-people-learn-in-relationship-sex-and-health-education/

I fully agree she doesn't handle it well, but possibly she has had little training and very little preparation for dealing with such things. then she shouldn't pontificate in the way she did.
If I had a child of 12/13 who was asserting they were cat gender (what does that even mean), I'd be seeking help and therapy for the child exactly as I would if my child was obviously anorexic but convinced they were fat. The girls weren't abusive to the other girl, they simply believe the fact that sex is biological and immutable, and that a girl can't be a cat. Do you think those girls should be forced to believe in gender identities, or keep silent? Would you agree with them being compelled to believe in any other person's belief, say Judaism or reincarnation? Should atheists never say they don't believe in any gods for fear of offending those with religious beliefs?

"She's trying to teach acceptance, diversity and equality in the face of very real and obvious prejudice" which is admirable however teaching a lie, that there are three sexes is wrong.

Even if a teacher believed that the world is flat, they wouldn't and shouldn't be allowed to tell their pupils that it is.

I can't for the life of me understand why any 12 year old should need to learn how to use a condom by putting one on a banana but knowing how some boys of that age can be, maybe segregating the class would have been a sensible approach.

Primrose53

Glorianny - it does name schools in various parts of the country where these resources are used.

It begins with some pretty outrageous statements, identifies one independent (that means private- parents pay so children choose to go there) school that's doing the stuff. Then links to some stuff about teaching name parts for sexual organs which is happening in some schools. Most teachers would support learning the proper names for things.
I do find it bizarre that papers, which are happy to show girls in skimpy clothing, accept programmes like Naked Attraction or Love Island on TV, object to drawings of naked children to teach the names of body parts.

Rosie51

Given that the teacher in question states as fact there are three sexes I don't think she is qualified to teach anything to do with sex. I listened to the recording yesterday and her attitude towards the girls was so rude and dismissive. I think she's definitely been 'Stonewalled' and is just parroting the mantras.

She's trying to teach acceptance, diversity and equality in the face of very real and obvious prejudice.
I fully agree she doesn't handle it well, but possibly she has had little training and very little preparation for dealing with such things.
Imagine if you had a child who was questioning their gender and very sensitive about doing so, and they encountered those girls, would you be happy with the abuse they would give your child? Because that's what results in schools.

Glorianny - it does name schools in various parts of the country where these resources are used.

Given that the teacher in question states as fact there are three sexes I don't think she is qualified to teach anything to do with sex. I listened to the recording yesterday and her attitude towards the girls was so rude and dismissive. I think she's definitely been 'Stonewalled' and is just parroting the mantras.

As far as the DM article goes, they need to understand there is the world of difference between teaching resources which are available on-line and what is actually taught in the classroom. Most of the teachers I know want to teach only very basic stuff and pray nobody asks a difficult question. They do have to deal with controversial stuff and try to maintain a balanced attitude that teaches children to accept differences and people who are different, sometimes in the face of very obvious and outspoken prejudice.

Sorry - typos galore.

I think girls need to be taught not to allow themselves to be pawns, I read somewhere many will have been coerced into performing a bj before a first kiss, not a great introduction to sex, not wishing to come over all Jane Austen, but I think we, our generation, at least were possibly lucky enough to experience some romance as a preamble to sex.

I agree, Terribull. At 12, I don't think I realised that people had sex on purpose . They were different times, and as I said, I wouldn't want to return to the 70s where sex education is concerned, but there should be no question of having to put a condom on a banana in front of the class at that age.

I also think that parents should have a say in what is taught as 'fact' to their children, and so-called 'gender' should be one of those things that is presented in a 'some people think' sort of way, as with comparative religion. If a parent feels strongly enough about it, they should, IMO, be able to remove their child from classes where it is taught. It amazes me that teachers are supposed to keep political views to themselves but at the same time can call the views of 'gender critical' pupils 'despicable', simply for questioning the right of a girl to identify as a cat as I was reported the other day. Interestingly, the children concerned were accused go being homophobic, which is a usual slur against anyone speaking against gender woo. What cat-identification has to do with same-sex attraction is beyond me, but the 'homophobia' slur is usually a signifier of someone who has been indoctrinated by Stonewall.

I just don't understand why this sort of thing is allowed to be taught in schools. If a child is disturbed enough to think he or she is a cat, they need help, but it is not helping to affirm that view, and to castigate children who refuse to do so.

I think sex education in schools is of course an important subject, my convent school only taught it through reproduction in non human species, sex being an almost taboo subject in catholic schools back then and needless to say only took place within a marriage that was about the extent of it. Of course there is no guarantee that all parents will impart vital facts to their children and in that the school should play an educational role.

Casting my mind back to the particular article I read in The ST, bearing in mind it was a few weeks ago now, I do remember one mother talking about her quite sensitive 12 year old girl who was asked to put a condom on a banana in front of several sniggering boys, which left her not wanting to go to school after that. There absolutely should be a veto available to the pupil in refusing such a request imo, 12 is still very young an age and there will be a great disparity as to development both physically and mentally insomuch as to how any individual will process what is under discussion, or may not even want to hear about some practices, I had no idea what anal sex was in my early teens and I know that is something I would have found horrifying. Parents will in most cases know their own child best. In fact casting my mind back to my own children's senior school years, sometimes we, the parents, were invited to a meeting when subjects such as drugs were going to be brought up in PSE so there was some sort of consensus as to maybe what was being discussed in the home didn't contradict, what they, the school, proposed to bring up mainly regarding skunk which seemed to be a relatively new phenomenon at the time.

I definitely think attitudes towards the opposite sex and respecting individual rights and paramount. Boys are subject to very toxic influences these days such as that Andrew Tate guy who has a very pernicious effect, from what we read, on the adolescent male. I think girls need to be taught not to allow themselves to be pawns, I read somewhere many will have been coerced into performing a bj before a first kiss, not a great introduction to sex, not wishing to come over all Jane Austen, but I think we, our generation, at least were possibly lucky enough to experience some romance as a preamble to sex.

nanna8

Seeing as how very few read The Daily Mail it seems, how do you actually know what is in the thing ? Just curious.

I’m fairly sure that I have never bought a copy of the Mail, but I have read numerous links to reports in it. Partly on threads like this one, but also when looking up information on a topic in the News. As people have said, it is important to look at different views on a topic to get anything approaching a balanced view. Oh, and my mother reads it. That doesn’t mean that I like the pursed-lipped sensationalism of its reporting, or the way that it encourages indignant disapproval of all but a very narrow view of how life should be lived.

I agree that discussion of the impact of porn should be part of PSE classes, and yes - consent should be part of those discussions too. I don’t know how, but it would be good if more could be done to prevent porn from being accessed by children. I completely understand curiosity but the objectification of women in porn could explain why so many girls declare themselves to be non-binary or male.

It is so sad that young people’s view of sex can be skewed before they get round to doing it. I’m not at all suggesting a return to the rather repressive approach to sex that was usual ‘in my day’, but porn is not going to encourage a healthy attitude to sex and relationships, and could easily put young people off the idea altogether.

Seeing as how very few read The Daily Mail it seems, how do you actually know what is in the thing ? Just curious.

TerriBull you put that really well. The most difficult part for most pupils is your last sentence. I’m not sure that most children have viewed porn at 12 years old. Those who have done so need the harmful effects pointed out and those who haven’t need to be warned for if/when they see it. Since the usual reaction is to go and look, they need to be warned that attempting to do that on school computers should be fruitless and will show up if their school has a decent firewall and logging record. Phones are a different matter.
Feeling uncomfortable and asking to leave a lesson would take courage and a willingness to stand up to the backlash from those who would pick on them afterwards.

I think consent is the biggest thing we need to teach in schools, there are still too many adults who do not understand this.

I also do think that it needs to be taught that sex should be enjoyable and never uncomfortable or dissatisfying.

I absolutely hate porn and the way women are portrayed because it gives the absolute wrong idea and perpetuates problems with both of the above

Having read all the thread, I did read an article in The ST a few weeks ago relating to a School in The Isle of Man, where one mother stated such a lesson left her 12 year old daughter traumatised by the content, I think under such circumstances a pupil of that age should be able to judge if they want to continue if they are distressed and opt out.

I would hope that any lessons would teach pupils against resisting coercion in doing anything they are uncomfortable with, taking into account how the viewing of pornography has not only shaped, but warped the minds of very young viewers, So I would also hope that the harmful effects of that could be discussed as to expectations that could possibly horrify, Girls in particular. I also think any pupil should be allowed to voice their opinions as to feeling uncomfortable about what's under discussion. and ask to leave the lesson if necessary

I also watch Sky News

Actually to be fair some of the schools I know are trying to deal with that issue.

They could talk about the damaging impacts of seeing porn at a young age. And the damage that porn does in general particularly to young girls.

The fact is that most children have viewed porn by the age of 12. Surely schools sex ed should try to explain sex and sexuality in an appropriate way including some of the things they will have seen and be curious about? Or keep them ignorant and let them learn from the internet?