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Spot on, Doodledog!

Wyllow3

Again, Doodledog, this all happened to people going back 40/50 years who were born gay. There were gay deniers, gay haters, they were classified as mentally ill, horrendous conversion therapy was not just offered but often standard.

It is generally now accepted that a % of the population are gay and that it is NOT a mental health problem anymore than its a mental health problem for genuine trans children - unless we push them into a corner and make them ill!

I agree that it is how it is managed that matters, and that it should be done so sensitively.

I also agree that there were dreadful things done to gay people, but I do not agree that those who question 'gender' identification are homophobic. Not at all. That is a false equivalence that is repeated over and over, and I absolutely refute it. Sexuality and gender are different things, and it is perfectly possible to question one without the other.

Also, I'm not sure whether you are suggesting that I was saying that transpeople are mentally ill - I wasn't. That comment was about the cosplaying 'transabled' people. If they are not mentally ill, and do not have criminal intent, how do you explain their behaviour? I'm happy to admit that I may be wrong, but I can't see another explanation, really.

I think that 'gender confusion' is encouraged by some of the things that children are taught at school, and by the idea that all of us can 'be what we want to be' in any way we wish. There is a minute number of people with clinical Gender Dysphoria, and of course they need to be treated carefully. There is also a huge number of people who do not have GD, however, but who choose to identify as the opposite sex whilst having no desire to change their bodies, and they are a very different matter. That is a choice, not a compulsion.

Changing sex is not a choice that is possible, as our biology is such that it cannot be done. People can dress as, impersonate and otherwise 'live as' the opposite sex by changing 'gender', but they have not changed sex, as it is not possible to do so. That doesn't mean that they should not be treated kindly, and live as they choose - nobody is suggesting that they shouldn't.

I don't believe that this should be allowed with children, however. I think that childhood should be sacrosanct, and that adults should not play along with notions of 'being in the wrong body', and should allow children to grow up untroubled by this sort of thing. Parents/carers are a different matter, of course, as it is their role to talk to children about whatever is troubling them. I don't think that it should spill over into schools, however - particularly as much of the training given to staff is brief, and organised by pressure groups such as Stonewall, who have an obvious agenda.

Again, Doodledog, this all happened to people going back 40/50 years who were born gay. There were gay deniers, gay haters, they were classified as mentally ill, horrendous conversion therapy was not just offered but often standard.

It is generally now accepted that a % of the population are gay and that it is NOT a mental health problem anymore than its a mental health problem for genuine trans children - unless we push them into a corner and make them ill!

Doodledog, whatever one's POV, the cat is well out of the bag as regards sexuality and gender issues.

It's how it's managed that counts.

It's also well in the public domain that people who are trans are talking about a change in gender not sex.

Certainly a chunk of the population don't "get" the difference - neither do they "get" that a very small number of children from an early age - with no particular pressure from parents or society - have always felt they were born into the "wrong" body

but attempting to suppress discussion

a) won't work in the world of social media and

b) is likely to lead to worse consequences for those genuine individuals who could be made to feel pariahs.

fancythat

I thought I would wait to comment further until it was established that it did happen.

It is happening all over.

I know[of] a young person who identifies as being disabled[not sure if it is still happening].

Yes, the cat incident happened. I think people should question the motives of those pretending that it didn't.

The 'transabled' thing has been going on for years, and is equally odd. I think that some people do it for financial gain or for sympathy, and others may be mentally ill or attention-seeking. It's part of the 'identity' pick and mix that people have been encouraged to believe is in front of them.

Choose the source you trust the most.

. . . poor teachers, trying to walk the right line. I agree the 'despicable' is an over reaction but also who knows the level of p-taking when she "lost it".

But the teacher called the girl 'despicable' for not agreeing that a child could 'become' a cat.

I absolutely agree that teachers have a hard time with this, and feel sorry for the woman caught in the middle of it all. She shouldn't have been recorded, and it must be awful to be exposed like this. Also, she may simply have been 'following the guidance' in her 'training'. Yes, she was very wrong to call a child 'despicable', and IMO she shouldn't be lying to children by telling them that they can choose to be what they are not, but it must be confusing and difficult to know what to say in the face of clear coercion and mixed messages.

Nevertheless, this happened, and was recorded, and it has brought the lunacy to the attention of people who may previously have shrugged it off as something that only 'obsessives' talk about, and that is very rare. Now, maybe something will be done to calm things down and let children grow up without believing that it is possible to change sex, species or 'identify' as they choose. If, as adults, they with to become transwomen or transmen, they can do so in the understanding that they will still be the sex they were born, but can 'live as' the opposite sex if they choose.

I thought I would wait to comment further until it was established that it did happen.

It is happening all over.

I know[of] a young person who identifies as being disabled[not sure if it is still happening].

Saggi

Of course they’re doing it to annoy us adults…. they realise that adults have ‘lost the plot’….my 16 year old grandson told me the other day that he was identifying as a girl that day ….oh yes I says …why’s that then. “ cos us boys have got rugby this afternoon and I just can’t face it!”!

My take on it too. They pick up on a lot on social media - nothing to do with the school at all - and it's a great wind up both the gender stuff and the animals.
Seriously for a moment, it's important to me that absolutely genuine gender diverse pupils are protected -poor teachers, trying to walk the right line. I agree the 'despicable' is an over reaction but also who knows the level of p-taking when she "lost it".

Oh, and here’s a thread on Mumsnet about how some of this is so barmy it is easy to believe that it’s not true, and how Some People want to pretend that It’s Not Happening because it exposes the ‘identity’ nonsense for what it is.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4833636-is-this-the-new-it-never-happens

The thread is called ‘sex education, but not as we know it’ .

There is another thread on this topic containing numerous links to articles that suggest that it did, indeed, happen. I posted three, I think, all from the Telegraph, which is as reliable source as any.

rowyn

Callistemon21

I have a photo of my DDs dressed up for Hallowe'en - one is a witch, the other is her little black cat

Even Dame Judi Dench and Elaine Paige thought they were cats.
😁

It's fashionable.

No they didn't. They worked very hard to represent as a cat on stage as convincingly as possible. They were very well aware that they were NOT cats!

Oh for goodness' sake

Huge SOH failure 😂😂😂

icanhandthemback

My grandaughter careered around neighing for a long time and nearly drove my daughter who has sensory issues mad. I felt it was Karma as she drove me mad with her broad Yorkshire Accent, her American Accent and her desire to be a dog when playing. Strangely enough, she outgrew them all!

Oh, I used to do that, set up jumps in the garden and my friends' garden, we had gymkhanas without ponies.
My DC did that too.

But we all changed back into humans when it was tea-time.

Thank you, win. That was an informative article. Re the litter trays, I think there is a difference between people asking for these to be provided, if indeed they do at your events, and children being provided with them in an emergency situation like a lockdown because of a shooter in the school. Young children get easily alarmed in such incidents and it is a natural reaction to want to relieve yourself. Needs must, as they say.
I found it perfectly natural for your small groups to wind up themselves and others by asking for dog bowls etc.as an in-joke. I certainly know that every staff room in the secondary schools I taught in would have devised a plan for all staff to wind up the kids during the day. It would have been a fun diversion. I can imagine the PE staff collecting the 'dogs' for a half hour run round the sports field. I have always believed a sense of humour to deal with these situations has a better result than the 'heavy hand'.

theconversation.com/what-are-furries-debunking-myths-about-kids-identifying-as-animals-and-litter-boxes-in-schools-193908

Thought you might like to read this !!t

More and more will now get on the bandwagon to wind up teachers. What amazes me (apart from the silly nonsense) is that a teacher called a pupil despicable!

My grandaughter careered around neighing for a long time and nearly drove my daughter who has sensory issues mad. I felt it was Karma as she drove me mad with her broad Yorkshire Accent, her American Accent and her desire to be a dog when playing. Strangely enough, she outgrew them all!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the late Queen as a child liked to pretend she was a horse.

My god-son is a teacher and he says it’s just to wind up the teachers and that some staff are silly enough to play along.

Yes but we all know what teenagers are like. To be different from your classmates is so difficult. I wouldn't bother your head about it. Next week they will all be following the latest pop sensation, who we won't know about anyway.

Of course they’re doing it to annoy us adults…. they realise that adults have ‘lost the plot’….my 16 year old grandson told me the other day that he was identifying as a girl that day ….oh yes I says …why’s that then. “ cos us boys have got rugby this afternoon and I just can’t face it!”!

I'd like to identify as tall and slender, rather than short and round. I've been told that's bring 'translender'!

I can't work out what age group you are talking about, which makes a difference.

I have had six or seven year olds pretending to be cats, dogs etc for a day or so, It is the sort of thing that teachers formerly just ignored, or asked for plain English as we didn't understand meowing or barking.

One of you mentioned fourteen year olds in this conection - I imagine they are trying to make sense of, or make fun of this business of physical males identifying as females and vice versa. To me it sounds like reasonable adolescent behaviour unless it is obviously something the child or adolescent clearly believes.

I remember hearing of a four-year old who insisted for months on only wearing his Batman costume. His mother, greatly worried, asked the head of the nusery what she should do about it. This lady our of years of experience running a nursery, said " Buy a second Batman costume, so you can wash his clothes when they need it. He will grow out of this phase, and the less fuss you make the sooner it will be over."

The child's mother followed the advice and four months later one morning the child announced, "I have nothing to wear, Mummy." Surprised the mother replied that his clean Batman suit was by his bed. "No, Mummy, I would like proper clothes."

Batman phase over and done with.

The same tactics might well work with school children identifying as animals.

I suggest if a child identifies as a cat, give them a litter tray, and xat goid on a bowl on the floor, no nice food or treats. They'll soon want to be a child again. The pet food won't harm them, the litter tray might be a problem but we cannot continue to pander to thus nonsense. We really as adults need to enforce our authority. I know some of hyou will think I'm being harsh and unreasonable but to allow a 6 year old to rule ion the way some children are is a recipe for disaster.

My oldest was a cat for a while, he did sit at the table to eat though. We didn't plan to get him neutered or get him a litter box.... He grew out of it.

MerylStreep

Siope
If, It. Didn’t. Happen. Why is this statement in this article.
We have now met with the Dfe to share an update on the events which took place before,during, and after the recording
Full article here.

schoolsweek.co.uk/gender-row-school-none-of-our-pupils-identify-as-a-cat/

An interesting read and somewhat different to the popular press version! However, without casting any aspersions on the source you have quoted, how do we know this is correct? Most sources have an agenda and will relate the version that backs that up. All we can do is take an educated guess until the official version is released...and hope that hasn't been skewed! It is good though to have different sources to try to make that decision and this version does make sense.