Tracking On Phones.

I apologise for coming on this thread and asking such tedious questions MOnica. I usually avoid "chat" threads like the plague. However, I do now know what outcome you wanted. Thank you.

DAR What do you mean what outcome do I want? I am not looking for any kind of outcome. I haven't asked for such apps to be banned, I merely expressed distaste at how tracking was being used by one family.

What outcomes are you expecting me to choose from?
Let me have the list, then I can comment.

Outcome? I'd just like people to be fully aware of what these apps involve and what they are capable of doing, so that if they are asked to install one on their phone by a relative or friend, then they are giving fully informed consent to do so. If both parties are fully informed and consenting, fine. It's when it goes beyond those boundaries that it becomes a cause for concern.

Oops, tht shouldn't have a quote attached.

Blondiescot

I agree with you, M0nica. I don't think anyone on here has actually called for such apps to be banned. Expressing concern about people routinely tracking grown adults doesn't mean you want the apps banned. I think everyone can see how useful they can be in certain situations - that doesn't necessarily mean we personally would want someone tracking our every movements. Surely people can see the difference?

I had pointed out that you, and others, had not said what you did want to happen, MOnica.

So, once again, what outcome do you want?

I’m happy to let dd2 track me when she feels it necessary and she actually set up the tracker for dgd on my phone for the days dgd is with me. My DSis uses the live location on WhatsApp when they are travelling to visit.
I’ve also got What3words installed which could be useful. The emergency services recommend it.

Blondiescot Thank you.

I agree with you, M0nica. I don't think anyone on here has actually called for such apps to be banned. Expressing concern about people routinely tracking grown adults doesn't mean you want the apps banned. I think everyone can see how useful they can be in certain situations - that doesn't necessarily mean we personally would want someone tracking our every movements. Surely people can see the difference?

DAR To begin with I am not remotely angry. Seccondly, i have never said anything about banning tracking apps. As i have said they have their uses

The last para is a neutral paragraph and refers to 'The mindset, not your mindset. I would have said 'your' mindset if that is what I meant.

I thought I had made it clear that I was also only referring to a specific example of grandparents tracking their children and grandchildren.

I have no objection to tracking as a whole. Scroll back and I think you see I say that. I just found it rather creepy that grandparents were tracking family down to the umpteenth generation, for no obvious reason.

All of us, at times, do things that we do not want other people to know about. Several years ago I made a quiet detour on my way home from visiting an elderly relation in care to collect DH's Christmas present, if he had been able to track me and had done so, he would have known immediately what i had bought and spoilt what was a lovely surprise. Turning your phone off is as a good as a confession that you are doing something you do not want people to know about.

Young adults may well not want immediate family to know where they spent the night, or what they were up to.

As I said, I find it disconcerting that you are reading all this excess of emotion into my posts. It is certainy not my emotion.

That is pretty much how it does work Icanhandthemback. However, switching off the permission, a choice which is available, would not help someone in a coercive relationship. The problem is the relationship not the app.

I think we are in agreement, ICHTB

And that is fine, Doodledog, it just seems to me that there is a middle path and I certainly think it should be a feature you have to turn on and give permission for rather than a default thing. However, just because the feature is there, it doesn't mean that most of us would necessarily "routinely" track anybody unless they were obsessive or coercive and whilst you would probably think I was naive, I think it is sad that anybody might think they would.

M0nica

DAR You are very trusting of those who have the mindset to think family tracking is a good idea.

Just as you say, tracking can be used as a form of coercive control, and that coercive control can just as easily be exercised by the parent and grandparent of adult C and GC, as by a partner.

To me the mindset that thinks such tracking control is harmless and reasonable, between generations of adults, without a very good and specific reason, perhaps someone with a learning disability, is of itself quite frightening, regardless of whether they exercise that power or not.

M0nica let's analyse what you say.

Actually, I don't know if I can because it's not clear what you want to happen. You seem to be more inclined to attack me personally, because I don't wallow in the problems with you.

You appear to have included me in a group you define as those who think "such tracking control is harmless". I wonder where you think I have said that? It seems to make you angry with me for not writing as angrily as you do. Not expressing anger does not mean I don't understand: I do. What I do not understand is what outcome you want. You have not explained that.

Do you expect us to ban cars because some people get killed? Do you expect us to ban nuclear fusion because it can be used for both good and ill? There must be a list as long as your arm of these things. So, do you expect us to ban so called "tracking" apps because they may be misused. As I say I really don't understand what your intention is or what you are arguing for.

I don't think anyone is saying that what you are doing is not innocuous, ichtb. Just that, for many of us, being routinely trackable wouldn't feel comfortable.

Many (if not most) people probably would use the feature innocuously, but the point is that it is the sort of thing that a coercer could easily insist upon, citing innocuous reasons for wanting it, and citing arguments about not having anything to hide as ways to close down resistance.

Does that mean that nobody should have access to the feature? Of course not. But nor does it mean that those who don't want it are against it because they are old or too ill-informed about technology - that's ridiculous . It just means they don't want it, and that they can see how it could be used for ill.

M0nica, whilst I understand all the concerns about coercive control and the problems this could theoretically bring, I think it is rather sad that you don't appear to think that the average, non coercive person couldn't use such technology sympathetically and without malicious intent or that the average person can't make a well judged decision to allow somebody in their family to have that information.
Today we are travelling 75 miles through heavy traffic to help my son move and he has things to do out and about whilst he waits. He will be able to track us to see when he needs to start heading for home without us having to keep texting and ringing. Similarly, if we get there early, we will be able to see how far off he is without ringing him when he is driving which is much safer. All innocuous stuff.

MOnica 👍🏻

DAR You are very trusting of those who have the mindset to think family tracking is a good idea.

Just as you say, tracking can be used as a form of coercive control, and that coercive control can just as easily be exercised by the parent and grandparent of adult C and GC, as by a partner.

To me the mindset that thinks such tracking control is harmless and reasonable, between generations of adults, without a very good and specific reason, perhaps someone with a learning disability, is of itself quite frightening, regardless of whether they exercise that power or not.

Iam64

If yiu read the thread DAR, you’ll see it’s happening in the lives of many posters. Not this one

I have followed the thread from the beginning * Iam*. I have seen many people suggest mother's, mother's-in-law and great Aunt Flo might have tracked them or others. But knowing the character of these people you just wouldn't give them access.

I have agreed that people in a coercive control relationship might misuse the phone app. People using coercive control will use anything they can. It is an awful situation and difficult to take away their power. But they could also use the "drop in" on Alexa, the camera in a teddy bear nanny cam, etc. The problem is not the technology, it is the person.

As for children, who knows if a parent with time to constantly watch a dot on an app? I simply don't believe it. I think it will be used on specific occasions until they are using it as so many adults happily do now.

If you want to turn this molehill into a mountain, I cannot stop you. But personally I think that people will behave in the same way they have always done. The sane and sensible will continue to be that and the bad, the criminal or those behaving inappropriately will be that, whatever is available to them. They need to be dealt with by the law or medically, not by depriving others of what they find useful.

I think if you are living with someone who uses coercive control, it causes problems for the victim in that turning off the tracker would be dangerous. My sister and my daughter would absolutely hate the lack of privacy. I couldn't care less except for I can't blame the traffic jams when I am late home because my husband can see that I spent too long shopping! However, since he is only happy that I am safe and haven't had an accident, that's ok. I've offered to let my daughter see where I am (so she can actually be ready for when I arrive to pick her up) but she isn't interested in that. I have told my youngest son that he must turn his tracker off as soon as he feels the loss of his privacy but he really isn't bothered about it at all.

DAR Read the post immediately above the one you quote.

If yiu read the thread DAR, you’ll see it’s happening in the lives of many posters. Not this one

M0nica

I am amazed that her children and grandchildren allow this lady to track them.

Had my parents had the facility to do this in my youth, they would have been told firmly and politely that they were not going to do it - and since they would need my co-operation to do so, it would have been a complete non-starter.

How can anyone have any kind of private life or private interests when an adukt is watching their every movement.

It is not that I cannot think of situations where such tracking software could be useful, but for independent adults, to have every little movement monitored, to kno, whether you wanted to do something claandestine or not, it would be found out because you were being tracked by mummy. Good grief!

Where exactly do we know of this happening. In my experience it simply doesn't happen like that. Were someone to do it, it would be inappropriate behavior and could be stopped. You could simply switch off the app.

I totally agree with your post, Monica.

I agree MOnica. What price privacy
I also don’t understand why anyone would want to extend the tyranny of mobiles/texts/emails demanding instant responses.

I am amazed that her children and grandchildren allow this lady to track them.

Had my parents had the facility to do this in my youth, they would have been told firmly and politely that they were not going to do it - and since they would need my co-operation to do so, it would have been a complete non-starter.

How can anyone have any kind of private life or private interests when an adukt is watching their every movement.

It is not that I cannot think of situations where such tracking software could be useful, but for independent adults, to have every little movement monitored, to kno, whether you wanted to do something claandestine or not, it would be found out because you were being tracked by mummy. Good grief!