Anyone just watched Mr Bates v the Post Office? *GNHQ tweaked the title*

MaizieD

If you go back to my post this morning you will see that Fujitsu wasn't responsible for the development of the IT system. It was ICL, which was later taken over by Fujitsu. I haven't had a chance today to look at this more closely but I'm just wondering if Fujitsu might use this as a way to evade some of the blame, because they didn't develop the system.?

Fujitsu took over ICL in April 2002 (almost 22 years ago) so they have had plenty of time to come to terms with the system and its defects

If you go back to my post this morning you will see that Fujitsu wasn't responsible for the development of the IT system. It was ICL, which was later taken over by Fujitsu. I haven't had a chance today to look at this more closely but I'm just wondering if Fujitsu might use this as a way to evade some of the blame, because they didn't develop the system.?

Just a reminder of my last post, that not only do Fijitsu still run the Post Office because the software is integral to the functioning of the system. BUT....

In the last 10 years the Government has awarded Fujitsu 191 contracts totally £6.5 billion including the MOD, HMRC and the Home Office.

So it seems Fujitsu virtually run the country.

You need to take that in. I'm not sure what it will mean if we have a falling out with Fujitsu.

A new petition has now started regarding Fujitsu:

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/hold-fujitsu-to-account-for-post-office-scandal?bucket=email-blast-11_1_2024_&utm_campaign=11_1_2024_&utm_medium=blast&utm_source=email

Petra, it certainly looks like it. I wonder why the Post Office don't have to interview potential fraudsters using taped evidence? This must surely be rectified.

If you keep watching TRIP they go into procurement- stunning.

A good discussion on The Rest is Politics in which RS explains much more about the computer system and gives insight into how Parliament reacted.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dye_PteQnAo

(It's near the beginning)

icanhandthemback

I thought he was most unimpressive witness, Iam64. Quite honestly, he didn't seem overly bright and I wondered how he could have been elevated to such a position.

He wasn’t hired for his brain to investigate the postmasters. He was hired for that job because he’s a bully.

I hear rumbles of discontent that a universal finding of innocence will include those few who, allegedly, did actually defraud the Post Office. My concern is that the innocent majority might therefore always feel that a cloud of suspicion lingers over them.

I hope this will not be the case - they’re entitled to feel that they’ve been completely exonerated.

DaisyAnneReturns

Doodledog

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I can certainly confirm that Fujitsu is used by HMRC - it is 20 years since I worked for a revenue dept. And it wasn’t known for its stability back then.

Oh great. And they are going to have access to everyone's bank accounts before long. I wonder how many pensioners and benefit claimants will be jailed for fraud, based on the fact that it is 'impossible for employees to alter their records'?

I have been saying this Doodledog. I can't see how "guilty till proven innocent" won't happen all over again to, in some cases, more frail and less knowledgeable people.

I suspect it will, but have been accused of paranoia for saying so.

I thought he was most unimpressive witness, Iam64. Quite honestly, he didn't seem overly bright and I wondered how he could have been elevated to such a position.

I’ve heard some of the inquiry today, questioning of Stephen Bradshaw who was employed by the Post Office since 1978 . He investigated the post office/horizon scandal.

He did not impress me in any way. He seemed to take no responsibility for anything. He wasn’t told by senior staff about problems with Horizon, he claimed not to be technically minded, when pushed on the statements he submitted he said the lawyers wrote them.

I met an ex-work friend yesterday, and we spent time over lunch talking about the issue (we live dangerously😄) and what we do not understand is that as auditors, we were aware of a number of software accounting systems, both big and small, and the company’s who used which system. We also were aware of the various systems weaknesses and took this information into account when instructing our computer officers to extract certain information from the system.

However, one lot of evidence may prove that the trader was fiddling the system, but this would need to be corroborated , but if this happened at a number of traders then alarm bells would ring.

Doodledog

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I can certainly confirm that Fujitsu is used by HMRC - it is 20 years since I worked for a revenue dept. And it wasn’t known for its stability back then.

Oh great. And they are going to have access to everyone's bank accounts before long. I wonder how many pensioners and benefit claimants will be jailed for fraud, based on the fact that it is 'impossible for employees to alter their records'?

I have been saying this Doodledog. I can't see how "guilty till proven innocent" won't happen all over again to, in some cases, more frail and less knowledgeable people.

I agree, that £600,000 depending on how individual victims have been affected, in some cases especially where custodial sentences were applied, seems less than adequate.

In the series the widow of the man who stepped out in front of the bus, was given 24 hours to accept some sort of compensatory offer and if, I remember rightly, forced to sign a grubby non disclosure agreement, thus exonerating the PO from any liability. At times it seemed the poor victims were dealing with the mafia rather than a previously respected public body.

The postmasters should receive some kind of civic honour to reflect their honesty and meritorious service given that many of them have suffered local abuse and in some cases assaults. Perhaps the King could instruct his Lords Lieutenants to hold publicised ceremonies to honour them.

biglouis

*several postmasters declared bankruptcy so their compensation may be claimed by the Receiver. What happens to them*

Nowadays most bankruptcies only last for a year before being discharged.

I understand some compensation has been claimed the Official Receiver. Surely the bankruptcies should be annulled and people reinstated financially.

several postmasters declared bankruptcy so their compensation may be claimed by the Receiver. What happens to them

Nowadays most bankruptcies only last for a year before being discharged.

Doodledog that is very very scary when you start to really think about it, also if anything come forward how on earth can normal everyday people prove anything! it is very thought provoking.

The announcement about compensation worries me.

First, what about those postmasters who have died. Will their spouses and families be redressed to where they were before the false prosecutions - that might include loss of widow's pension, loss of house, inability to support children at school or university, etc.

Second, for some postmasters the requirement to sign a statement of innocence might well put them off seeking compensation because they distrust the PO and government which have pursued innocent people through the courts. It smells of trying to imply some of them were guilty regardless of the false prosecutions. It should be dropped.

Third, for many the £600,000 fixed offer would be inadequate given their losses and suffering. Given the example set by the Home Office of asylum case backlog management I'm not optimistic that the alternative full assessment route would produce results before people die. Will the postmasters be provided with government funding to take full assessment cases forward or do they have to pay for the necessary professional help?

Fourth, several postmasters declared bankruptcy so their compensation may be claimed by the Receiver. What happens to them?

I have just been reading (after it was flagged up on X/twitter) the witness statement of a software engineer who was employed by ICL (the company which was originally commissioned to develop the Pathway & Horizon programmes, but which was taken over by Fujitsu). He is very damning. He says the whole project was badly done.

Of particular interest is the fact that he identified big problems with the Horizon point of sale module, said it had to be completely rewritten and that it would take about 6 weeks. He was over ruled and moved to another post...

So the problem was well known before the IT project went live...

Here is his witness statement. It's quite a long read.

www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/WITN00620100%20David%20McDonnell%20-%20Witness%20Statement_0.pdf

Whitewavemark2

Yes, I can certainly confirm that Fujitsu is used by HMRC - it is 20 years since I worked for a revenue dept. And it wasn’t known for its stability back then.

Oh great. And they are going to have access to everyone's bank accounts before long. I wonder how many pensioners and benefit claimants will be jailed for fraud, based on the fact that it is 'impossible for employees to alter their records'?

Yes, I can certainly confirm that Fujitsu is used by HMRC - it is 20 years since I worked for a revenue dept. And it wasn’t known for its stability back then.

Worrying, isn't it, Chestnut ☹

Here's some information about Fujitsu:
The Fujitsu Fat Cats who pocketed huge salaries

Just remember they still run the Post Office because the software is integral to the functioning of the system.

In the last 10 years the Government has awarded Fujitsu 191 contracts totally £6.5 billion including the MOD, HMRC and the Home Office.

So it seems Fujitsu virtually run the country.