A new inquiry re ex-DIL re holidays and honesty

Yes, I agree with ileea, there are papers the joint parties can sign as a child custody agreement without a lawyer, as long as they are witnessed. But that's here... check with your state or federal office. Holidays and school vacation time can be mentioned in these agreements usually, then it is bound by the agreement.

You said they have paperwork saying joint custody. When my ex and I separated we didn't use lawyers(we did have an inital consult but that was all.) we just filled out the legal papers on our own and then had to go to family court and stand up and say we both agreed to what was written.

To be blunt you cannot dictate what your DIL wants to do about living arrangements, visiting the grandparents, holidays, sleepovers etc. when they divorce or when she moves out. Grandparents have very little or mostly no rights to access here in the UK and its probably the same in the US.
Best to be friendly and kind to DIL and never make any demands as that way can lead to estrangement.
Best wishes ❤️

Sorry for all your worries . Having been a rare child of divorced parents at my grammar school in a northern town -probably the only one , with a very over trendy , embarrassing mother and the divorce went on for 7 years with both parents trying to get us on their ‘side’ - I would highly recommend that young people think very very carefully about what they about when they have children as divorce is a very bad situation for their children and in fact caused myself to be described as a social problem child and should have gone to university by both my Grammar school and 6 th form college headmasters .my boyfriends parent were sent for by his head teacher and advised he should not be allowed to see me which was absolutely heart breaking and caused us to see each other secretly for a year . I became a long standing nurse for 46 years tho so probably for the best in a way . As a mum of two sons married with children I sincerely hope it never happens to them . 💐💐

Just a note ... Can posters made the post easier to read ie smaller in lenght ? As I give up reading the post if it goes on for miles ?

I may be mistaken but did I read somewhere that your ex daughter in laws name is on the house deeds? If so you might need to look into that.
You have had some sensible advice, I hope your son and his ex can work together to make their child feel secure and as happy as possible under the circumstances.

Ah well it was bound to happen and it’s likel much healthier for her , and probably your son to do so. What kind of new life can either build for themselves if still tied to eachother .

It will be, but you'll have the chance to do it gently, which is something to be appreciated, for your grandsons sake.

I think the major issue is that since their divorce, holidays, outings, and even a vacation have been spent all together - including all four of us traveling to her sister’s home for Thanksgiving last year. So it’s the CHANGE that is the struggle. It certainly is a much more normal scenario for divorced parents to live completely apart and to split holidays and outings - it just hasn’t been our way of doing things to-date. And so this will be a challenge for all of us.

As for her wanting your son and she to present split holidays and not vacationing together as a United front that is entirely reasonable. Your son should have never considered joining her family visit to start - of course he should also be helping explain to his son that couples who are no longer married don’t travel together , it she should have a lovely holiday with his mum and he’d seen him when he got home. Same for holidays - “this is the way it is going to be , you go celebrate xx with mum and have a blast and we will celebrate xx when. I see you again “ or vice versa. What does your son think he should be telling poor gs “welll daddy would love to inappropriately insert himself in visiting your mothers family and it hurts him so badly to be excluded but it’s what mommy wants “. ??? A United front and an honest stiff upper lip on both sides is best for gs. You and he wouldn’t want her sharing all of her truth either I suspect. “Well darling daddy’s mental health prevents him from accepting ….” Or “well honey it makes me so heartbroken but I have to let you leave …”. No. Those adult feelings maybve true but won’t help the child.

eazybee

Tell your son to seek proper legal advice instead of discussing everything with you, i.e.offloading it on to your shoulders. I am sorry, but I can understand why your daughter-in-law feels the need to get away and start a fresh life; at present there are three people in this divorce.
They may need to go to court to get a proper agreement over custody and access, and I would also check out your legal arrangements for ownership of your joint property.

Sound advice.

Op of course this young women is ready to move on with her life , only natural. You don’t see many single others living with her ex and his mum do you ? I would encourage your son to seek legal advice on a con parenting plan. But the reality is that if your sons mental health prevents him from beinf fully present, too tired to parent on weekends erc then yes gs mum is going to need to be the primary parent. Because the parent options are her or your son. Not her , you and your son that doesn’t mean visitation and such can’t and shouldn’t be worked out but it’s the sad reality. You yourself acknowledge your son won’t ever be able to be self sufficient . But this idea your son has that they should be sos ding “family time “ together on trips or holidays is just irrational, they’re not a family anymore are they ? It seems like your son is having trouble grasping that this part of his reality and you could help by pointing out how that would be abnormal entirely. And did he really think that an invite to his ex wife’s family’s from his very young son was an agreed upon plan? Does he struggle to understand societal norms or boundaries in other areas ?

crazyH

I think the OP is in the USA -I suppose it’s different there. Over here, I don’t think they ask the child’s opinion. I think it’s unfair to put the child in that position.

over here (uk) the childrens' opinion is taken into account from quite a young age. www.gov.uk/government/news/children-will-be-seen-and-heard-in-family-courts

I can understand that you want to support your son, especially if he's living with mental ill-health, you do need to tread carefully though as I'm sure you are aware.

Reading your posts, things have obviously evolved for your DiL to a degree and may continue to do so.
I think your son should take legal advice....if only for information and to develop a Plan B, if needed.

I hope your son will gradually feel able to accept the new situation.

It is tough if you have people in your family you know will always need additional support.

One thing your DS does need to do is to stop taking what his son says as accurate. The rules for divorced parents and meeting up are the same as for any child wanting a play date. "Adults arrange things. You can ask but the parents decide"

at present there are three people in this divorce
👏👏👏

Plus half of Gransnet!

Lots of couples very successfully “Co-parent” if their split has been amicable, no reasons why this shouldn’t continue.

Obviously sharing premises in this way isn’t working for the lady concerned and us echo others sentiments and encourage DS to seek legal advice and to be pleasant and friendly to DiL to keep things as amicable as possible between you and her.

Good luck to all involved

Tell your son to seek proper legal advice instead of discussing everything with you, i.e.offloading it on to your shoulders. I am sorry, but I can understand why your daughter-in-law feels the need to get away and start a fresh life; at present there are three people in this divorce.
They may need to go to court to get a proper agreement over custody and access, and I would also check out your legal arrangements for ownership of your joint property.

“Dealing” and “Strategies” are, in my lexicon, neutral, not negative, words per se but if people read antipathy in my posts, that is their interpretation. I am surprised, hurt, and anxious. I am not daft, however, and I get the message - stay out of it, accept her decisions without rancor, stop trying to help my son with his reactions, this situation was untenable at best, grit teeth and move on.

the title of both your threads shew your antipathy to your GS's mother.
also much else of how you write, including unnecessary detail about her parentage.
i can see why she wants to get away and lead her own life.
obviously she is going to be the main care-giver for her son, as you say your son is not fully fit to do so.
you cannot become a proxy parent on his behalf, unless that is ordered by the courts.
the situation was untenable and probably much less harmonious than you imagine.
esp for her.

DGS’s bedroom is in the main house. DIL sleeps and works in the small addition. Sometimes DGS sleeps over there, sometimes here. DGS’s playroom is in that addition as well We all share the kitchen and living spaces in the main house or have until a week ago.
They divorced in 2020 and since that time we’ve shared holidays, vacations, and dwellings. And it’s been harmonious. Miraculously so.
I have no say in DGS’s relationship with his mum nor do I ever comment unless specially asked for an opinion and when give a very guarded one despite what I may actually be thinking.
My son is simply not independent partly due to his mental illness. Believe me in addition to the loss of DH and other loses over the past seven years, NOTHING hurts as much as the loss of the expectation that your adult child will be autonomous and never need your financial assistance.

I am sorry that you have had this financial burden for some years. I can see that you have taken it on gladly (as it were) and also can see that even from the outside it does feel that you have only recently settled into the current arrangement and now it's all shuffling again. I expect it will feel quite annoying that it's happened so quickly.

As you primarily responsible for yourself (and your son just now) it's obviously a good idea for you and him to see a lawyer - maybe separately - to just get a handle on the situation. It may be that things can continue to be amicable- I do hope so - and that the legals can be easy.

I fear I'm not being very helpful - but if your son is worried about "family holidays" I'd definitely try to get him to see how unlikely that is.
It sounds to me that he may be struggling with the idea of change but you can at least reassure him that you are going to help him through it - after all, it is inevitable now.

But thought yiu said your DIL lived with your DGS in a separate tiny home on your large property while you and your DS live in the large main house?

I just wish I’d had more warning
I thought you said they've been divorced since 2020

I meant easily swayed by his mum
🤔 Really, you must stay out of the mother/child relationship.

You and your son sound exceptionally close, perhaps being unable to cut the apron strings has been a big part of the problems you are encountering.

To be completely accurate: four years ago DH and I paid their rent for a year. The next two years they lived in a house that DH and I purchased for them with cash and we received a minimal amount of $ from them as a type of rent. After DH died we sold that house and mine and we moved here to an apartment for six months while house-hunting and I paid the rent. This house has our three names on the title but I pay 85% of the mortgage plus all of the other costs - insurance, maintenance, utilities, etc. I won’t go into why neither one of them has been or is solvent but that’s the situation. I actually do not feel antipathy toward her wellbeck nor do I want to control her relationship with DGS; I understand her reasoning, I just wish I’d had more warning. While I completely understand that she is calling the shots and I’ve told her that - it’s not easy for DS and I to pretend that this was a decision made by all of us at this time because it wasn’t. But he and I know doing anything else will jeopardize his relationship with her and his access and mine to DGS which is his priority and mine. And again, yes it would be wrong to ask DGS what he wants. Finally yes moving to a smaller home will save me money so that’s the silver lining. Yes I will butt out of whatever they agree upon going forward while continuing to be involved financially with my son and myself because that’s another thing over which I have no choice at present.

you need to butt out of this.
your antipathy towards your GS's mother is obvious in this and previous thread.
you cannot control a mother's relationship with her child.
nor should you try.