Transgender women and an early state pension.

Rosie51

Thanks Callistemon I can't believe there will be anyone who will fit those criteria. Most transwomen do not have gender reassignment surgery, so the likelihood of one who had fulfilling the rest of the requirement is remote. What a waste of time preparing this guidance.

I completely agree!

Rosie51 Thanks for this, yes I did miss this, and I believe this is a worry.

Thanks Callistemon I can't believe there will be anyone who will fit those criteria. Most transwomen do not have gender reassignment surgery, so the likelihood of one who had fulfilling the rest of the requirement is remote. What a waste of time preparing this guidance.

Bridie22

We are all entitled to an opinion, as we are all entitled to disagree, no hierarchy here, just discussion.

And politeness costs nothing.

Doodledog

Eligibility
You may be entitled to backdated State Pension if all the following apply:

you were born between 31 October 1953 and 6 November 1953
you had lived in your acquired gender for at least 2 years by 31 October 2018
you have had gender reassignment surgery
This is because a court ruling means that a transgender person who has had gender reassignment surgery and lived in their acquired gender for a significant period must be recognised in their acquired gender for State Pension purposes.

www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-backdated-state-pension-if-youre-a-transgender-woman

That answers my query anyway.

I hope this isn’t going to end with grizzling about bullying by anyone who disagrees!

As others have said, there is no hierarchy, and it’s good to have diversity of opinion. It’s true that we have seen posters come and go, reinventing themselves when they’ve ‘left in a hurry’, but to me that only matters if they rely on cheap digs instead of argument. I really can’t be doing with ‘some people’ instead of names, and inferences that lurk below the surface - just spit it out if you (generic) have something to say.

I would love someone to answer the questions in my last post, but no-one ever has, so I remain unconvinced that women should give up our spaces, our identities and our place in the world as a way of ‘being kind’.

Re my earlier link - I did say that the dates were out, but wonder if there was a mistake in the OP. We really need a link to the source. It doesn’t alter my sentiments one whit though. Whether this is a real claim or not, I stand by my views, which go much wider than this.

Cossy

Bridie22

Sea Woozle...and biological women just want to live their lives as their true selve without interferences from other groups, why is that not achievable?

As far as I can see, and have ever seen, the people that have ever stopped biological women being truly free are biological men! Women had safe places not to escape trans women but mainly to escape biological men who started to “invade” gay clubs as heterosexual men to try and have sex and “cure” lesbian women.

Please don’t tell me I’m talking nonsense I have two gay daughters and many gay female friends!

But transwomen are biological men! No amount of artificial hormones or surgery changes their biology, and most don't have surgery anyway. Have you missed the Stonewall edicts that lesbians should be open to including intact trans lesbians in their dating pool? Girldick is apparently a female sex organ. Lesbian dating sites are attacked for wanting to exclude biological males no matter how they identify.

I wouldn't mind betting that the number of men born in that one week who have had gender reassignment surgery and qualify for a maximum of 7 days pension is minimal (or even non-existent).

It's a hypothetical situation and somebody has realised the anomaly.

Yes and probably spent a lot of time on it.

But the relevant issue is the date at which any person(s) who might have been born in that week changed their gender.

Maggiemaybe

^What is a bunfight, please, and how does it differ from a heated discussion?^

It doesn’t. And of course it’s used with reference to men - google the term and you’ll find it routinely used to describe parliamentary debates etc.

Anyway - re the dates - Is there a link to the source of the information in the OP?

As already stated back in the thread, it’s from the Government website. Here you go.

www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-backdated-state-pension-if-youre-a-transgender-woman

There may have been a misprint in the dates

Possibly, but seems unlikely.

My guess is that transwomen are attempting to claim any compensation awarded to women in this position

I can’t see any basis for that.

I can't see any basis for it either. The 6 November was the date that men's and women's pensions was equalised.

I wouldn't mind betting that the number of men born in that one week who have had gender reassignment surgery and qualify for a maximum of 7 days pension is minimal (or even non-existent).

It's a hypothetical situation and somebody has realised the anomaly.

SeaWoozle
Equally, they don't expect to be harassed every time they leave their houses, but they are.
The fault for that lies in the actions of TRA and TW who hit the headlines
1 for actions which cheat women out of what is rightfully theirs in sport or jobs or titles like ^woman of the year^
2 deny women the right to prison spaces without the danger of rapists etc who’ve decided that they are TW,
3 decide that they are entitled to be in female spaces, regardless of how it makes the females feel

All these TW that so many of us now know and post about saying for example,
FWIW, there are MANY transwomen out there who RECOGNISE that they will never be full women, if you will. I have several trans friends, who all appreciate their differences. They don't seek affirmation from anyone and don't expect special treatment.

are affected badly, not because of females, who go about their daily lives without impacting on TW,
but because some TW do exactly what I’ve listed above and TRA-male or female, who enact violence or threats towards anyone who dares to object to TW doing those things.
It’s time for trans, especially TW, to stand up and defend the females they purport to be, even though they can never be female themselves, but I suspect that is never going to happen.

We are all entitled to an opinion, as we are all entitled to disagree, no hierarchy here, just discussion.

Seawoozle

“ And what of the fact I only arrived here a short time ago (though sometimes it feels longer 🙄)? Am I not entitled to an opinion or is there some kind of hierarchy of commenting? I'm sorry if I don't slot into the GN norms of posting comments (whatever that is!) but that's just me.”

Honestly Seawoozke I don’t think that they’re all “norms” of posting! We are all very different, different life experiences, different back stories! Different is good! Please, just keep on being yourself!

I think sometimes beliefs and passions run so high posts don’t always come across in the way they were intended.

SeaWoozle

Callistemon21

Just answer the question being asked!
That should have been in ^^ as it was a quote. And a very demanding one.
🤔

I have.

And what of the fact I only arrived here a short time ago (though sometimes it feels longer 🙄)? Am I not entitled to an opinion or is there some kind of hierarchy of commenting? I'm sorry if I don't slot into the GN norms of posting comments (whatever that is!) but that's just me.

And what of the fact I only arrived here a short time ago

You are assuming that other posters have read your posts in the short time you have been here

I have said time and time again that I support the freedom of speech. I also support the right to reply.

I must say I, for one, hadn't noticed you say that time and time again.

Bridie22

Sea Woozle...and biological women just want to live their lives as their true selve without interferences from other groups, why is that not achievable?

As far as I can see, and have ever seen, the people that have ever stopped biological women being truly free are biological men! Women had safe places not to escape trans women but mainly to escape biological men who started to “invade” gay clubs as heterosexual men to try and have sex and “cure” lesbian women.

Please don’t tell me I’m talking nonsense I have two gay daughters and many gay female friends!

Callistemon21

^Just answer the question being asked!^
That should have been in ^^ as it was a quote. And a very demanding one.
🤔

I have.

And what of the fact I only arrived here a short time ago (though sometimes it feels longer 🙄)? Am I not entitled to an opinion or is there some kind of hierarchy of commenting? I'm sorry if I don't slot into the GN norms of posting comments (whatever that is!) but that's just me.

But then people grizzle about bunfighting when it was inevitable due to the nature of the post.
Which ‘people’ have ‘grizzled’ about bunfighting? Can you be specific please? And why was it inevitable?

Yes, so-called transitioning is legal. Does that make it ok? Are women meant to stay quiet (ie not ‘grizzle’ or ‘bunfight’ when laws are discriminatory and unjust? Or do we have a right to point out when things that are legal are also wrong?

I don’t expect answers to these questions, but will ask them anyway:
* How does someone know that they ‘feel like’ a woman when they aren’t one?

* What does ‘living as a woman mean’?

* If a transwoman is an intact male, how does he differ from a man?

* Why were women’s spaces created in the first place, and what has changed to mean that we no longer need them now?

* What is it about men that means that their wants have to take precedence over the needs of women to have privacy and dignity when we are vulnerable? Why do thes wants also override the religious obligations of some groups of women?

There are other questions - these are largely about the ‘spaces’ issue; but if I understood the answers to these it would help me to feel less as though the whole trans movement exists to dominate women.

Bridie22

Sea Woozle...and biological women just want to live their lives as their true selve without interferences from other groups, why is that not achievable?

I'm living mine just fine, thanks.

Just answer the question being asked!
That should have been in ^^ as it was a quote. And a very demanding one.
🤔

Sea Woozle...and biological women just want to live their lives as their true selve without interferences from other groups, why is that not achievable?

I have said time and time again that I support the freedom of speech. I also support the right to reply. But then people grizzle about bunfighting when it was inevitable due to the nature of the post.

Well, you only arrived on Gransnet a very short time ago so perhaps some may have missed your constant reiterations.

Just answer the question being asked!
🤔

Rosie51

SeaWoozle do you take the same attitude to threads that open discussion from opposing viewpoints on other topics, or is it just biological sex and gender identity that shouldn't be discussed? Not wanting to be provocative, but sometimes it seems this is a "sacred caste" of threads that dare not mention its name. This was how Priestly abuse of children was endured for so long, it was a 'sacred caste' that couldn't be discussed let alone questioned.

I have said time and time again that I support the freedom of speech. I also support the right to reply. But then people grizzle about bunfighting when it was inevitable due to the nature of the post.

Just answer the question being asked!

FWIW, there are MANY transwomen out there who RECOGNISE that they will never be full women, if you will. I have several trans friends, who all appreciate their differences. They don't seek affirmation from anyone and don't expect special treatment. And they're certainly not trying to deny anyone's womanhood/manhood. Equally, they don't expect to be harassed every time they leave their houses, but they are. They just want to live as their true selves without interference from others.

And it's really not a new thing, by the way.

Bridie22

I disagree Cossy,
Transwomen are men and as such not entitled to a biological females pension, its just another way they are inserting their lies into biology.

It’s absolute fine to disagree, but that doesn’t change the fact that trans women are legally recognised as women if they have a GRC.

As for the pension thing, imo this is just a nonsense! It doesn’t make any sense and it’s almost as if the DWP are attempting to solve a problem which doesn’t exist!

"Only a MAN can be a trans woman" exactly sf010.

The definition of transition does not say that transitioning results in changing one's biological sex, it is "The process by which a trans gender person permanently adopts the outward or physical characteristics that match their gender identity as opposed to those associated with the sex registered for them at birth".

I disagree Cossy,
Transwomen are men and as such not entitled to a biological females pension, its just another way they are inserting their lies into biology.

Bridie22

As biological females we must continue to speak the truth and not be coerced into lying
About the facts which are...you cannot change your sex .

Why must we?? It doesn’t affect us in the slightest? If the law recognises trans gender people (people, not just women, people can transition either way!), the law allows them to apply for GRC and thus have their birth certificate changed and be legally recognised as a different gender. If the law recognises this, why can’t you?