Transgender women and an early state pension.

Its pink news. They said (and were sued for) Julie Bindel was supplying the gender critical with lesbian wives. I am still bloody waiting for mine. And the funding from the far right.

Mollygo what do you think transphobia looks like?

Evidence as requested

www.thepinknews.com/2021/01/19/public-toilets-trans-bathroom-butch-lesbian-harassed-gender-critical-feminists/

And a bonus FYI

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/lesbians-erased-trans-people-myth

VS. That's not what some lesbians are saying Evidence VS?

This looks like an extension of your some women do not respect women idea.

There is evidence in the media about TW who have stopped lesbians holding lesbian only events, and demanding that lesbians accept TW as partners. so I’m sure you could back up your statement.

Does the high and lofty desire of women here to protect other women not include protecting lesbians?

Thank you VS, for the compliment about my desire to protect females against the actions of harmful TW. I wasn’t expecting that.

It absolutely does include lesbians and if what you say is true, I’d condemn it without pussyfooting round with excuses or using it to excuse TRA and some TW behaviour.

However, how do you define looking butch?

In a world where women’s apparel encompasses most articles of clothing, women’s haircuts encompass everything from being bald to long hair, women can have tattoos and piercings (though not a Prince Albert) and women can be tall, muscular and deep voiced (I have that on good authority from another poster) without looking like a man, how do you define the butch look that got these lesbians ejected?

Bridie22

Transwomen are Males identifying as females full stop .

Full stop, padlock, no returns?

Galaxy

The worst homophobia I have seen (it reminds of stuff I saw back in the early 90s) is the suggestion that lesbians can not exclude men from their dating sites, clubs etc. By men I mean transwomen. Many of those challenging gender ideas are lesbians, many have been at the forefront of the fight.

Actually, there are lesbians who do date trans women... Would you still be happy to agree they are lesbians? Because I certainly would

Transwomen are Males identifying as females full stop .

Ilovecheese

Butch lesbians don't look like men, and will not be confused with men. That doesn't stop them from being attacked, but allowing men into women's lavatories gives the people who just don't like lesbians an excuse to attack them because they can pretend that they mistook a woman for a man.
Allowing men into women's lavatories puts butch lesbians in more danger.

Actually, it is transphobia putting some women in danger

Let's not forget that

What does transphobia look like to you?

The worst homophobia I have seen (it reminds of stuff I saw back in the early 90s) is the suggestion that lesbians can not exclude men from their dating sites, clubs etc. By men I mean transwomen. Many of those challenging gender ideas are lesbians, many have been at the forefront of the fight.

Butch lesbians don't look like men, and will not be confused with men. That doesn't stop them from being attacked, but allowing men into women's lavatories gives the people who just don't like lesbians an excuse to attack them because they can pretend that they mistook a woman for a man.
Allowing men into women's lavatories puts butch lesbians in more danger.

Ilovecheese

Butch lesbians don't look like men. If butch lesbians are being attacked it is not because they are being mistaken for men, that is just the excuse that is given by people that want to hurt them for who they are.

That's not what some lesbians are saying

They are saying specifically that transphobic people are abusing them in toilets and other women's spaces, some have even been forcibly ejected

Does the high and lofty desire of women here to protect other women not include protecting lesbians?

VS

You say
And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

I’m glad you see the discrimination against JKR as oppression, considering how many TRA and TW say she deserves the attacks.

I was delighted to see that you didn’t/couldn’t refute that, but just in case you missed it I posted it again.

If a male came on here and said he was a woman, any response would include the word you.
I don’t even address you as she or he.

That is not the point

The point is that gender dysphoria is when a person's sex does not match their gender

Ergo, they are not the sex they wish to be.

Trans people can and do make alterations to their bodies to bring their sex in line with their gender. Yes, they can only do that in appearance but the changes are indeed real and physical.

Please read this government document and scroll down to "Causes of gender dysphoria" because those causes are believed to be biological in origin:

www.nidirect.gov.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria#:~:text=Causes%20of%20gender%20dysphoria,-There%20are%20many&text=Occasionally%2C%20the%20hormones%20that%20trigger,a%20result%20of%20taking%20medication

If we do away with gender norms and trans people still exist, what will people say then?

Absolutely Ilovecheese.

Butch lesbians don't look like men. If butch lesbians are being attacked it is not because they are being mistaken for men, that is just the excuse that is given by people that want to hurt them for who they are.

To pretend otherwise Ilovecheese is why we're in the mess we're in now. With men in women's safe spaces, competing against women in sports, with some crimes being recorded with the wrong sex of the perpetrator, with men wanting to be imprisoned with women and with already traumatised women facing the man who raped or sexually assaulted her, having to refer to them as 'she', or using their new name, a name almost entirely given to females.

Nobody alters their sex. it is not possible. To pretend otherwise is not very kind.

No VS they don't change their sex. Hormone therapy and surgery enables them to adopt the physical characteristics of a man or a woman.

In answer to your question I would say what I say now, that trans women are men, and trans men are women.

Transgender people may conform to cultural gender norms and they may not

Either way, most trans people would dearly love to alter their sex and many do so through the use of hormone therapy and surgery

If you were to do away with gender norms completely, and trans people still existed, what would you say then?

Well yes VS because as a GRC recognises a change of gender, not a change of sex.

We are not talking gender which is a social construct, we are talking sex.

Bridie22

Incorrect information VS... as of the present day, Males identifying as females are men.

Well no because people who have a GRC are legally that gender except for a few cases like women's safe spaces

But apart from safe spaces, it is illegal to discriminate against trans people or in any way treat them less favourably than other people under the equality act

This includes bullying and harassment. If a trans woman were here and were deliberately misgendered they would legally have the right to report that as harassment

VioletSky

It was a terrible meme, discrimination is discrimination

And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

So the meme is oppressive

In your opinion VS, but you refuse to clearly condemn the actions of those TW who discriminate against females

You say
And anything that suggests that discrimination is deserved is oppression

I’m glad you see the discrimination against JKR as oppression, considering how many TRA and TW say she deserves the attacks.

But not all trans people have GD VS. An extremely small percentage are diagnosed; 0.005 - 0.014 % and what we do know is that men identifying as women are men, and women identifying as men are women.

Regardless of the reason(s) why, that will never change.

Incorrect information VS... as of the present day, Males identifying as females are men.