if the Spanish don't want us,don't go there

When they find there’s no ncome from tourists they’ll no doubt relent. Meanwhile we are going to Northumberland.

Thread diversion coming up. Use of the phrase "the Spanish" drove me to it. My mum always insisted one should say Spaniards, not Spanish. Technically she may have been correct but it can surely be seen as on a par to "the English" or even "the British"?

Joseann Around us many farm house buildings are essentially one long terrace of homes in the middle of the from dating from when the farm had farm workers or more than one family running the farm and these homes are now empty, some are added to the main farm house to make it larger, others convert very well to Gites. It would be difficult to sell these because they are in the heart of the garden and court going with the main house.

In our case, there were three quite separate large stone houses, it had once been a large manor, and we had the manor house, one other house was owned and occupied and the third house was completely derelict. The two occupied ones were surrounded by their own garden/paddocks.

Yes, I guess if we'd carved our houses up into 4 individual properties for locals, at 200,000 euros a piece we could have got near to the same selling price, but the site was on an ancient druid settlement which bore the name of a Saint. In so doing we would have destroyed the historical significance of the site, and probably have been less popular with the mayor!

We had a holiday home in Normandy for 33 years. We bought a run down 2 bedroomed house and sold a modernised 4 bedroomed house.

There were only 12 houses in our commune that were owned by British people despite being in a WW2 hotspot, only 30 mintes from the sea and easy access to the ferries.

When we sold it this year, it was to the French parents of our new young French neighbours, who have bought it to retire to in 4 years time. For the time being it continues as a second home.

We have found a local AirBNB for our continuing short visits and a local Gite for week stays. You can still pick up wrecks ofr 35,000 euros and a decent three bed houses can be bought for under 100,000 euros. Our young neighbours, paid 100,000 euros for a large habitable 4 bedroomed house, which required some updating, including 2 paddocks and out buildings.

In our area of Normandy AirBNB's and their like are no threat to the local housing market.

I agree with you Goldencity, especially the final paragraph. We lived in a rural village in Brittany and ran four gîtes for several years, accommodating 24 guests.
The number of inhabitants in the village was only 1000. When we spoke to our mayor, he said, certainly not, to adding a tax for the guests' stay because they were using the local bar, bakery, shop etc. He decided that that was far more important than the taxe de séjour, so nothing more was mentioned about it!!
When we did school trips from England to our French properties,the children were invited to spend a day at the village school. When we ran Art and Dance holidays, a local chef came to cook a special meal one evening. We also opened our swimming pool up to local children who could play with the visitors' children if they wanted to.
Our property comprised of a small hamlet with several acres. We were told that local French people could never have afforded to buy it, and that the 16th century buildings would have just gone to ruins. This was proven to be true by the the fact that when we sold, it was to buyers from Jersey.
So, in some cases, having holiday lets works for both the owner and the community.

We have a gîte here in France- which we advertise on Airb&b, as well as on several other websites and direct via our website and Facebook.
Air is just one letting platform amongst many, although the term is now used in the same way as “hoover” meaning any vacuum cleaner.

The problem with short term holiday lets arises when there are too many in an area -of unrestricted growth in tourism- locals are priced out, the nature of a place changes and resentment grows. This has happened in some areas of France too- parts of Brittany, Paris and all along the med coast. The answer is regulation- local maires have the power to refuse permission for a property to be used as a gîte, there are moves to change the tax regime for properties in areas where housing is under pressure to make holiday let’s less attractive financially.
However outside of these areas, it is not a problem. We (and other owners) bring lots of money into our area. We have renovated houses which otherwise would have been left unused, our guests spend money in the local economy, they eat out, they visit attractions and the money they pay us also gets spent locally as well.

We pay our income tax, our social charges, we pay the equivalent of council tax and business taxes and our guests pay the taxe de sejour.
Our area, which is not in one of the tourist “hotspots” is actively encouraging tourism- but the kind that encourages nature, culture and the outdoor life.

I remember 20 years ago we stayed in a hotel on Lake Garda and were so appalled by the behaviour of a coach load of English tourists that we sat in a corner and conversed in Italian in the hope that no one would realise we were English. I suspect things will only have got worse since then.

Just returned from a week in central Benidorm. Why do people complain about it so much?
Lived in the totally Spanish village of Alfaz about 5 kilometres further for about 20 years running a business as well as working for two local newspapers. Never had the time to chill out on the Levante beach, cleaned every night so went this year to reminisce.
Lived in Trinidad as a child and the beaches are amazing but never as clean and organised like Benidorm.
Remembering the thread, no problems for us as we took the time to learn Spanish and its always appreciated even if they reply in English.

M0nica

I do not quite understand you MaggsMcG, Are you talking about Sovereign Wealth Funds buying up all our water companies, and taking all the available investment money out as dividends?

I do not quite understand you MaggsMcG, Are you talking about Sovereign Wealth Funds buying up all our water companies, and taking all the available investment money out as dividends?

"38M0nica

Like so many things, what starts as being a movement that brings economic growth and prosperity to a resort/area/country, over the years grows so large that the conomic advantages begin to fail as the very things that made somewhere popular begin to degrade it."

Bit like too many people trying to get onto one island and take over all the infrastructure.

maddyone

The Swedish person you know Witzend is part of the problem. Using up a house, which would have been modernised by now whoever lived in it, but not being there all the time using the shops and other facilities, is definitely part of the problem. No one likes to think that by buying up houses abroad they are contributing to a housing shortage, but in reality they are. And unless they live in it permanently, they are contributing little to the local economy.

She actually spend about half the year there - escaping the Swedish winter - and in summer her sons and their families, plus a few friends, holiday there. She doesn’t rent it out for profit.

I might add that a lot of locals have been priced out of many areas of London by foreign buyers of property for many years now. Many of whom use the properties only briefly each year, or don’t use them at all, and don’t even rent them out. They are simply seen as a safe place to park one’s money.

Maybe it’s time we took a leaf out of the Danes’ book, and banned all foreigners from buying property unless they’ve actually lived there for 5 years.

According to a half-Dane* who told dh this, the measure was actually intended to stop Germans buying up masses of properties, especially all along their their extensive coastline, but they couldn’t say that (against EU law) so they said ‘no foreigners’ instead.

*he was somewhat put out that even as a half-Dane he was banned as a foreigner, from buying.

Delene

MissInterpreted

I don't think it's just the incidents in Barcelona though - there have been protests in various areas, including the Balearic and Canary Islands.

Also Tenerife

Which is one of the Canary Islands...

MissInterpreted

I don't think it's just the incidents in Barcelona though - there have been protests in various areas, including the Balearic and Canary Islands.

Also Tenerife

We stay in AirBnBs occasionally, have never had any problem.

Easy reasonable solution - not a hotel with silly people all round, able to cook for ourselves, nice, clean, quiet, and good for the host.

As some have said even in the UK, local people in a seaside area I visit regularly, complain so much about the numbers of.roieists coming, the number of cottages rented a s the number of people buying up houses on retirement. It's not so much the behaviour but there do seem to be some that leave rubbish, park inconsiderately etc which is horrid for the local people. Much of the employment in the town is seasonal, I think local people.l recognize that there are benefits to the area, they keep shops going, and other local facilities.
I don't know if there is any air bnbs, I have used air bnbs but only ones that are a room in someone's house, the goats have been people who are maybe freelancers so not a steady income, or basically they are trying to pay their mortgage. This seems v different to having them as rental homes. I like that I have access to a kitchen, most of my hosta have been women, not all, the one I went to with a man who was very professional and again, he was using it to help pay the bills, and they have been very helpful with local knowledge. They have all been nice and quiet, which is what I want.
When I've been to ones that have more than one room I've enjoyed chatting to fellow guests

But *halfpint1^ Big city exploitation or small town extra income. All these different properties are available on AirBNB. So to condemn AirBNB as a scheme just because parts of it do not work well, when other bits do, seems to me to be unreasonable.

AirBnBs have had to be licensed in Barcelona for a long time so as in New York local government had scope to control it, and gain money from it. A big problem in many areas comes from cruise ship tourists, who are not paying for accommodation in a city at all, but are disgorged in huge numbers. Other than re Venice I have seen little discussion on moves to control cruise ships which seem to be becoming ever larger. London (90 days per property) and many cities control the bookings through the site- though perhaps hard to audit where many sites are used- so it has become a common problem globally. Spain has a housing and second home squatting problem particularly in Catalunya where protest marches on a variety of topics are frequent. (Re tourists in the UK I hope we’ll move soon to charging foreign visitors (as a minimum) to visit London and Britains world class museums to help maintain our heritage. We expect to pay abroad.)

Lollin I think you’re correct AirBnB have ruined a lot of places as people see it as easy money buy a property then rent it because you don’t have to live with the consequences. Edinburgh is a prime example you wouldn’t want to buy a flat in the old town nowadays as most are rental and the few locals who are still there have to live the constant turnover of people that the sense of community is lost

Monica like any business there is the good or bad. The Airbnb's
causing the housing problem are for the most part in the
Cities world wide. Converting your outhouses in the French
countryside for tourism income is not the same thing.

So who actually owns these Airbnb s
Locals you would think ?

“Now it is unrecognisable, and the locals complain constantly, despite the largest percentage of tourists coming from inland areas, so not even foreigners”

You’re right on this one GG - the inland town council where we live in Spain organises a weekly day trip through July and August to the coastal resorts for €6.

TerriBull

The northern coastal areas such as San Sebastian have not been tainted in the way that the Costas have been, somewhat cooler but un-spoilt, or was when I went there, a while back now.. I do love the Moorish part of Spain though which is predominantly in the south.

Try driving up along the coast front San Sebastian to Portugal it is lovely

I don’t want to ‘have a go at you’ especially BlueBelle but it looked as if you are policing this thread.
Saying the post was horrible ( it wasn’t) and telling the poster to
‘ have a bit of thought and care’ !
It would certainly put me off booking anywhere busy in Spain at the moment, and the busy places with plenty to do are what many tourists want.