Peace of Mind

Sarnia

There has been no growth in the economy for 2 months in a row now and the £22bn black hole which Reeves and Starmer blame for all their decisions has not been helped by their rush to pay the junior doctors and train workers their wage demands. I reluctantly stuck with the Tories at the last election because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Labour. As a pensioner born in 1948 I get the lower State pension only and I am concerned what is next for people like me. Reeves needs to insist that the likes of Amazon pay their full tax bill and not be patting herself on the back because they have given £8b for apprenticeships. A sop to Cerberus if ever I saw one.

I think that Reeves and Starmer owe it to us to give a specific breakdown of the composition of the "Black Hole", which departments have spent what and where, how many handouts for various vanity projects have been dispensed with no prospect of any return, etc, etc.
They have a duty to hand over precise information of the state of the country's "books." Making cavalier references to "the Black Hole" is a pretty slipshod way of running an economy.

I'm not holding my breath.

Ali08

We should stop giving to other countries first and look after our own people first!!
All these 'refugees', that are no such thing, that come over and are placed in hotels etc because old army camps are not good enough for them - they were good enough for our military, so why not them? They should accept what they're offered and if they don't like it they can go back to France, or wherever, and live in a makeshift shelter, give that money to our pensioners!!!
Sorry, I don't mean to sound racist, but enough is enough!!
I lost a bloody good job because the hotel I was working in had to accept 'refugees', and once that happens the alcohol licence is taken away!
This country is too busy giving to everyone else so we look good!!

Rant over.

I agree completely with you Ali08.

That poor old 99 year old ex military man on TV a few days ago. Served this country during the war and now struggling as his WFP has been stopped.

He is a hero whereas those arriving on boats have contributed nothing to our country. All they do is take.

4allweknow

I may not be too concerned about the loss of the WFA I am though about tge 20% vat on school fees. My GS attends an independent school not because the family is well off but due to tge state school completely igniring his issues abd trying to pass the buck onto his parents. The whole family saw the issues and that my GS was suffering. As a result including his parents and another 3 family members contribute to pay the fees. Another 20% will put another strain on the budget. The Government has stated the 20% will be to recruit 6,500 new teachers. Why is there a shortage in the first place and how will schools cope with all the defaulters of the VAT needing places. Couldn't the WFA be reduced gradually even 50% as well as the VAT on school fees.
As a note my GS is flourishing at his school.

Your post could have been mine. My 11 year old granddaughter is at a specialist private school as she has dyslexia and autism. Thankfully she has an EHCP so the local authority pay her fees but Starmer has not thought this through. By all means tax the wealthy who won't lose sleep over an increase in the fees but please do not send those children who could not get their educational needs from a mainstream school back into mainstream. A very cruel plan.

I don't understand why people are jumping to conclusions and saying they read/heard/saw that Labour is considering this and that - it make no sense until changes are announced.

We have a budget coming in just two months for goodness sake.

Also, re the Winter fuel allowance, they obviously had to announce that early so that people would save up (if they could). There would have been even more alarm if it had not been announced till November.

Marg, at the age of nearly eighty you should be happy that Starmer is helping the NHS by increasing social care so that NHS beds are not blocked by elderly patients who can't be discharged as they lack any care at home.

Nobody is going to make you cold in your own house or flat! There will still be fuel allowance for those who need it.

It looks as though the thread is running out of steam! Thanks for all your comments, it's much appreciated. I won't say I feel better but it's good to know that we all have a view on this controversial subject and can all sympathise with those who will suffer this winter.

We should stop giving to other countries first and look after our own people first!!
All these 'refugees', that are no such thing, that come over and are placed in hotels etc because old army camps are not good enough for them - they were good enough for our military, so why not them? They should accept what they're offered and if they don't like it they can go back to France, or wherever, and live in a makeshift shelter, give that money to our pensioners!!!
Sorry, I don't mean to sound racist, but enough is enough!!
I lost a bloody good job because the hotel I was working in had to accept 'refugees', and once that happens the alcohol licence is taken away!
This country is too busy giving to everyone else so we look good!!

Rant over.

I may not be too concerned about the loss of the WFA I am though about tge 20% vat on school fees. My GS attends an independent school not because the family is well off but due to tge state school completely igniring his issues abd trying to pass the buck onto his parents. The whole family saw the issues and that my GS was suffering. As a result including his parents and another 3 family members contribute to pay the fees. Another 20% will put another strain on the budget. The Government has stated the 20% will be to recruit 6,500 new teachers. Why is there a shortage in the first place and how will schools cope with all the defaulters of the VAT needing places. Couldn't the WFA be reduced gradually even 50% as well as the VAT on school fees.
As a note my GS is flourishing at his school.

I hope there is something up the government's sleeve too, Madmeg.

I also don't think anyone needs to apologise for spending their own money how they wish. Nor do I care if people have smoked, drank and danced the night away . Party animals can have good retirements, too, and there is no reason why anyone shouldn't make improvements to their homes.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that cruisers are necessarily wealthy - just that if someone can afford to go on a cruise the chances are that they can afford to put the heating on. I'm no advocate of means-tests, and absolutely agree that everyone should be able to spend their money as they wish older age. It is annoying when you (generic) have saved for something only to find that you could have had it free if you had less in the back, and I'm in no way making a case for that.

I don't think that pensioners are a special case though. Younger people are struggling too. I think that pensions should rise, that tax thresholds should also rise, and that the cut-off for receiving WFP should be above the threshold for Pension Credit. But not that everyone over 66 should get money that nobody under that age gets.

Oh, and we aren't higher-rate taxp'ayers and never have been.

Not all cruises are hellishly expensive. Many cruisers are, like us, people who have not spent lavishly during their working lives, never smoked, drink little, don't pay £100 a time for shoes or dresses, don't replace their kitchens more than a couple of times in 50 years, do their own DIY and so on. Clearly they aren't poor but nor are they necessarily wealthy.

As one of the lucky ones and (though we've worked very hard) I do know of pensioners almost on the breadline who've worked just as hard. A friend of mine remortgaged her home to pay for cruises and due to her extra outgoings was able to claim benefits. She used her credit card to its maximum and then downsized twice to repay them - and go on another cruise! Yes, sadly, she was divorced quite young, but only ever had a part-time clerical job (with no occupational pension cos she said she couldn't afford the contributions) and claimed benefits.

All that said, my heart goes out to those of you who are genuinely struggling to manage and I hope the government will have something up their sleeves to compensate for their loss of WFA and whatever else transpires.

But I don't think the Tories would have been averse to doing this either.

No, we didn't "need" the WFA ourselves and gave half to charity.

I think the fact that the WFP wasn't taxed is important too, but that is rarely mentioned.

For every £250 paid out, those with a low enough income not to pay tax got the straight £250, those on 20% tax got the equivalent of £300, and those with enough to pay 40% tax got the equivalent of £350. Is that fair?

I think it is cynical of the LP to equate keeping the Triple Lock with cancelling WFA.

The pension increase only comes into effect in April and is based on price rises that have already happened.

The WFA was in addition to the pension rise not instead of it.

Yes. I would love to see that clawed back with interest, and criminal charges made.

I agree Doodledog. I don’t see anyone mentioning the handouts given to the cronies of the last Government for useless and bogus PPE. Upwards of £16bn has been identified.
Maybe that could have filled the chasm.

Lisaangel10

Doodledog

What has happened with this Labour government is easy to understand. They have to make up for years of corruption and incompetence, and this will not be easy for anyone.

I agree that there will be some older people who will struggle with the WFP withdrawal, and the timing and delivery were atrocious, but KS is governing the whole country - not just pensioners - and it is not just pensioners who are poor. Money that would have gone to older people who can afford cruises and champagne can (and should) be diverted to children who are going to school hungry. I don’t understand how anyone can argue otherwise.

Means-testing is always iniquitous. Always. But there may be announcements of measures in the budget that will help those who needed the payment but won’t get it - I hope so.

I’m going to argue with your middle paragraph.

Firstly, I know very few pensioners who could afford cruises and champagne. I do though know loads of young families who are now expecting their kids to be fed by anyone but themselves. Kids are all well dressed, posh buggies, phones, cars etc but they say they can’t afford to feed their kids! Sorry, not buying that one.

Young people can usually take on extra shifts or an extra job to earn more money. Pensioners usually can’t due to age and poor health.

We all brought up our kids with no breakfast clubs, no food banks, no free school meals (except the very poorest) no free nursery places and no benefits other than family allowance/child benefit.

So I definitely think pensioners are more deserving.

Fair enough, but who you, or I, or anyone else knows is neither here nor there. some people know lots of champagne-drinking cruisers and others know lots of neglectful parents. I would say that the vast majority of parents do the best they can for their children, but I'm not saying you don't know some with posh buggies and cars who don't feed theirs. I'm sure many have phones, too - the same as everyone who posts on here, in fact.

The point, though, is that some of the WFP was going to the well-off (you just have to look at threads on here to see that, whether you know that 'in real life' or not), and some children are going without a hot meal, particularly in school holidays when they don't get a free meal at school. Does that make sense to you?

Dividing people into different groups just creates resentment, and can be very unfair. Why not give fuel payments to everyone under a certain income bracket, instead of basing them on age? To do that, there has to be a cut-off. I am not in favour of means-testing at all, and think that choosing the PC threshold was wrong, but wherever a means-test is set there will be those who just miss out.

It is true that in the past there were no breakfast clubs, food banks etc, but then there were council houses with lifetime tenancies and reasonable rents, and those who wanted to buy a house could do so on one average salary per family - they even got tax relief on the mortgage. House prices have risen enormously - great for those who bought when they were cheap, and great for those who will inherit, but not so great for those at the start of their mortgages. Similarly, council houses have been sold, and private rents are at very high levels - often for the same house that used to bring money into the council but now is a cash cow for the tenant who bought it at a discount.

It's not always possible to 'take on extra shifts'. People on salaries (as opposed to wages) can't do that, and many employers prefer to keep people on limited hours to avoid having to pay NI contributions. Also, childcare is so expensive that it can cost more than people earn to get children looked after out of school hours.

Nobody should have to give up their NT membership or their choir, but nobody should have to worry about sending their child to school hungry either. I think keepingquiet is right.

keepingquiet

pascal30

keepingquiet

Personally I felt far more vulnerable under the previous government who had stripped the country's coffers to line their own pockets.
I think we now have to face up to the reality of what happened when people ignored project 'fear' and voted for Brexit. Most of the voters who said they didn't mind the bit of hardship that Brexit would bring are now beginning to experience that hardship.
All I can say is this is what people voted for and it is now going to be a very bumpy ride indeed.
When you are feeling sorry for yourself think about the young people who cannot afford to leave home due to ridiculous rents, poor wages and working conditions, and even if they move out they cannot afford to save for a mortgage deposit or even dream of owning their own home. The idea that they might ever be able to retire with a state pension is laughable.
Yes, we are all feeling vulnerable but at least we can say as David Cameron did before he gave into the pressure of holding a referendum; 'we're all in it together.'

completely agree...

Thank you- I thought I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness, now there are two of us.

Talk about ostriches burying their heads; 'it's all Labour all Labour nothing to do with Brexit all that was years ago don't you know...?'

I live in hope that we could rejoin but I suspect they won't want us...

RosiesMaw2

^Firstly, I know very few pensioners who could afford cruises and champagne^
Really?
Look at the various threads here- quite a few cruises, and second/holiday homes for starters.

Proportionally though, I would imagine pensioners (on GN and in real life) who go on cruises and / or have second homes etc are in the minority? Who knows? I am not at all well off and neither are most people I know. If you’re mostly sitting alone at home feeling the cold or if you are on a cruise, you’re more likely to post about the latter?

pascal30

keepingquiet

Personally I felt far more vulnerable under the previous government who had stripped the country's coffers to line their own pockets.
I think we now have to face up to the reality of what happened when people ignored project 'fear' and voted for Brexit. Most of the voters who said they didn't mind the bit of hardship that Brexit would bring are now beginning to experience that hardship.
All I can say is this is what people voted for and it is now going to be a very bumpy ride indeed.
When you are feeling sorry for yourself think about the young people who cannot afford to leave home due to ridiculous rents, poor wages and working conditions, and even if they move out they cannot afford to save for a mortgage deposit or even dream of owning their own home. The idea that they might ever be able to retire with a state pension is laughable.
Yes, we are all feeling vulnerable but at least we can say as David Cameron did before he gave into the pressure of holding a referendum; 'we're all in it together.'

completely agree...

Thank you- I thought I was a lone voice crying in the wilderness, now there are two of us.

Talk about ostriches burying their heads; 'it's all Labour all Labour nothing to do with Brexit all that was years ago don't you know...?'

Rowyn and Marg You have my sympathy, I am going to pay the WFA to my Mum, even tho hard to afford as she was so upset about it and I don’t want her turning the thermostat down.None of us can understand a Labour government doing this.If they take away the single person’s discount for council tax it will be the last straw.🤬

The loss of the Winter Fuel Allowance was a blow but I've just read that Kier Starmer has not ruled out stopping the 25% single person council tax reduction. If that goes through, it will be a tough pill to swallow.

rowynSome of my answer was missed out. We've just had a large bill for a roof repair which will come out of our savings. All the more reason to get a little help with our heating bills.

Also why should you have to give up your NT visits and your choir?

So it's OK to give train drivers on already high salaries an enormous amount of more money whilst people like Marg, and me, elderly and living on our own , but probably having just enough not to get Pension Credit, have to decide whether to be warm or well fed.
And if , like me, you've just had a torrent of water coming through your kitchen ceiling, (faulty valve in upstairs loo cistern) , and although I'm insured, will have to pay £600 excess - thought it was £300, but because I had to call out the emergency service, and then make a claim for the damage, it's double that apparently, then I will have to cut down on many things. I've cancelled some Direct debits so will no longer be visiting National Trust places, and other subscriptions,such as my local choir, have been stopped.
I was hoping that i would therefore manage, but the possibility of having to pay a lot more Council tax, if I lose my single person discount, is worrying me a lot.
Oh and then someone mentioned prescriptions. I have 8 items prescribed each month, from eye drops to blood thinners with a variety of drugs in between> If they expect me to pay for those each month I might as well just give up and let Nature take its course.
I really cannot understand how anyone can defend the attack on pensioners, because that is what it is. I am absolutely certain if Labour had told us what they intended doing before the election they wouldn't have the majority they got.

I'm extremely wary of Starmer's declaration that the NHS must be 'reformed'......whenever politicians start throwing words like that around (and 'review' and 'overhaul') I just know it means something is going to be taken away!