⚠️ Suicide pods - warning ‼️

Bluebell, my. Daughter died 2 years ago. With food and water being stopped but she still received her anti seizure drugs.

As others have said it depends where you are with a terminal illness, my husbands treatment in hospital was horrendous, pain medication given out at set times, hard luck if you needed it earlier, just suffer. The hospice was wonderful and he died peacefully there without pain. They wanted to transfer him to hospital for treatment but he said he would rather die at the hospice then go into hospital and die screaming on a hospital trolly in A&E

Macadia

I am sorry 53theworriedwell. I had something similar happen to my dear Jack. 15 yrs old. You can't unthink it. At least we loved them. I'm sorry for your sorrow. I have it too.

It is a terrible pain isn't it, I feel I let her down and when people talk about how we don't let our pets suffer and they get a "good" death I wonder how it was so wrong for my lovely girl.

I thought that it looked like a good way to go.

It all seems very clinical and sad. X

The suicide pod reminded me of a film PASSENGERS where Chris Pratt woke up too soon when his sleep pod malfunctioned…would hate to hear/see this happen to anyone - I will put in writing how I want to go if terminally ill…in fact if it’s a horrible cancer disease and the smell/odour of death is happening-have experienced this twice with my mother and sister-in-law - you don’t forget this smell - don’t want to be exposing that to anyone either 💐

Ilovedogs22

crazyH, I have to disagree about palliative care being great! End of life-care often just consists of slowly being denied both food & liquids. It's simply immoral, we don't let our animals die like this. 🤔

Surely it will depend on the individual patient, though. As some doctor once put it, ‘They are not dying because they are not eating and drinking. They are not eating and drink because they are dying.’

There may often come a point when a person’s organs can no longer process food and drink. I spent a lot of time sitting with an aunt (mid 80s with fairly advanced dementia) who was consistently refusing food and drink after the umpteenth UTI. She took about a week to drift away quite peacefully.

Going to hospital for drips etc. had been an option, but her GP had advised that it would not be in her best interests, since it was only going to happen again quite soon, and in any case hospital is a terrible place for anyone with dementia, when they can’t understand what is going on, or why.

When my Dad was in his last week the doctor/ nurse just gradually upped the dose of morphine going into his driver this was 12 years ago he didn’t wake up my mum after 7 plus years of awful debilitating Alzheimer’s had a heart attack (age 90 ) They asked if I wanted them to work on her or let her go naturally… again she was on morphine and lasted 24 hours.
The same with my Nan they just upped the meds
That feels more natural to me than lying in a pod to be gassed
Ugg shudder
I ll take my chance with a natural death

I am sorry 53theworriedwell. I had something similar happen to my dear Jack. 15 yrs old. You can't unthink it. At least we loved them. I'm sorry for your sorrow. I have it too.

When my knee pain was so bad a few years ago, I thought of all ways to end my life, that’s how bad it got, so god knows how I would feel if I had end stage cancer- think the government should be doing more for end of life care & assisted suicide, if that’s how a person chooses to go

Macadia

I think it needs no legislation and anyone who wants meds to kill themselves should be allowed to purchase those from a vending machine as long as they're over 21 years old.

I remember when suicide was a crime but it has been legal for decades. I think the problem is when people aren't able to sort it out for themselves and if you go and buy them something to kill themselves with you can be charged with assisting a suicide.

I think it needs no legislation and anyone who wants meds to kill themselves should be allowed to purchase those from a vending machine as long as they're over 21 years old.

Prior to Shipman and his disposing of the elderly, I believe doctors regularly overdosed patients at EOL,, rather like King George V, who was helped on his way.
My mother had very little morphine at the end in my house and two nurses accompanying him, presumably to make sure he didn’t overdose.
Damn Shipman, I’d like to be overdosed!

Maybe I'd have struggled more if it had been my mother. Don't know what happened there.

Witzend

Re dementia, having seen both my mother and my FiL go through it, dh and I have added a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Powers of Attorney, to state that if we should develop dementia, or any other condition where we are unable both to care for ourselves, and speak (with full mental capacity) for ourselves, then we emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment.
It’s better than nothing!

At a fairly late stage in my mother’s dementia, I said more or less the same to her care home staff - she was already over 90 anyway. They agreed absolutely that it would not be in her best interests for any ‘striving to keep alive’ to be allowed.

TBH to me it would have been verging on cruelty - I was only too painfully aware of how my mother’s former self would have hated what she’d become, and would have been the first to say, ‘For goodness’ sake, just let me go!’

In the end she went on to 97 with no ‘striving’ but that was down to the very good care she’d received, and the fact that she had the general constitution of a rhinoceros.

From all I’ve ever heard, though, it’s often relatives, rather than medics, who insist on ‘striving’, regardless of the person’s quality of life, because, ‘I can’t bear to let Mum/Dad go.’

With my elderly relative the GP asked how I felt about extreme measures to keep her alive. He was very non judgemental but when I said I wanted her to be comfortable but no CPR it was clear he agreed with the decision, when she had an infection we agreed to keep her where she was although I was offered the alternative to have her moved to a hospital for more high tech treatment. Again I was completely supported in my decision. The doctor thought she only had days but a year later she is still with us. This week I was asked bout the flu and covid jabs and I agreed with her having them as long as she wasn't distressed in anyway. Maybe it was the wrong decision, it is hard.

I suspect you are right and the medics know when to say enough but family don't always see it the same. Maybe I'd have struggled more if it had been my .

Macadia

I am sorry 04theworriedwell but your dog's veterinarian was very unqualified. They are supposed to sedate the animal first before the other injection. Please remember the love and care and many years you had with your dog. That means more. You gave all of your love ❤️.

It was the injection to sedate her that caused the problem. I don't know if she was allergic to it or something but she knew the vet and was never nervous going there, the vet looked after all our dogs over many years and was a kind and compassionate woman but once that injection went in it was like a horror story and I think all she could do was struggle to complete the procedure before the dog did herself any more harm. I can't remember the good bits, I can't' look at photos of her, all I see is the horror scene.

Oh God I'm crying again. I think I have PTSD or something.

Yes, the wanting to get home for the children is awful to see, and really common, sadly.

I've known someone to break her hip, come home from hospital, and immediately get up, walking around, looking for a way home because her children are due home from school.

MissAdventure

I met a delightfully confused lady in a home, who happily wandered all day, causing havoc as she went, who would approach you for a cuddle, and tell you she loved you, in her own way.
She was an absolute treasure to deal with, enjoyed sweeties, loved the food, and spent her time singing and giggling.

She loved going to bed, and was happy to get up, too.
It would be a shame if someone decided hers was not an acceptable quality of life...

If only most of them were like that! Instead of (all too often in my experience) anxious, confused, or frightened of things they couldn’t even name.

Never mind the poor lady of 80 odd in my mother’s care home, who was so often crying and very distressed - because her mother wouldn’t know where she was. Or she needed to get home ‘for the children’.

The staff were always very kind, but of course nothing could comfort her for more than half a minute, since her short term memory was practically zero, and her ‘head’ was almost permanently back in the distant past.

To be fair, there was one old lady who was apparently always very happy, because as she told me every time, her mum and dad, nan and granddad were coming very soon, and they were all going off to the seaside!

How I wished that my poor mother (and others) could have been almost permanently happily back in some sunlit childhood idyll.

MissInterpreted

I have been with every one of our dogs when they were PTS, and each time, although heartbreaking, it was a very peaceful experience. I'm sorry that your experience was so traumatic.

Sadly when our last dog to sleep, he turned at the last minute and managed to spit out the stuff being put into his mouth, however he had first been sedated, he and I were lying on a blanket and the vet very quickly managed to rearrange things and he went quickly and painlessly.

I hate to have my dogs pts, it’s heartbreaking but having seen how much pain, both physically and emotionally my poor dear mum went through for 6.5 years since my dad died, she would have welcomed an earlier pain free death. She had a living Will and a DNR.

Witzend

Re dementia, having seen both my mother and my FiL go through it, dh and I have added a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Powers of Attorney, to state that if we should develop dementia, or any other condition where we are unable both to care for ourselves, and speak (with full mental capacity) for ourselves, then we emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment.
It’s better than nothing!

At a fairly late stage in my mother’s dementia, I said more or less the same to her care home staff - she was already over 90 anyway. They agreed absolutely that it would not be in her best interests for any ‘striving to keep alive’ to be allowed.

TBH to me it would have been verging on cruelty - I was only too painfully aware of how my mother’s former self would have hated what she’d become, and would have been the first to say, ‘For goodness’ sake, just let me go!’

In the end she went on to 97 with no ‘striving’ but that was down to the very good care she’d received, and the fact that she had the general constitution of a rhinoceros.

From all I’ve ever heard, though, it’s often relatives, rather than medics, who insist on ‘striving’, regardless of the person’s quality of life, because, ‘I can’t bear to let Mum/Dad go.’

I completely agree, my poor MiL is almost 90, advanced vascular dementia, severe mobility issues, incontinence, won’t wear her glasses or her teeth and her quality of life is absolutely dire despite being very well cared for in residential care.

I’d hate this for me, as would my DH (for me and himself).

He merrily trolls up to see her, on the bus, for up to four full mornings a week and tbh and very blunt it’s all pointless, hopeless and very sad for both of them!

Stay alive at any cost, no thank you

I am sorry 04theworriedwell but your dog's veterinarian was very unqualified. They are supposed to sedate the animal first before the other injection. Please remember the love and care and many years you had with your dog. That means more. You gave all of your love ❤️.

I met a delightfully confused lady in a home, who happily wandered all day, causing havoc as she went, who would approach you for a cuddle, and tell you she loved you, in her own way.
She was an absolute treasure to deal with, enjoyed sweeties, loved the food, and spent her time singing and giggling.

She loved going to bed, and was happy to get up, too.
It would be a shame if someone decided hers was not an acceptable quality of life...

Babs03

Tbh I sat on the fence with regard to assisted dying but after hearing Esther Rantzen and seeing close friends and relatives go though the final stages of cancer/terminal illnesses I have opened my mind to the benefits to the sufferer for whom there is no hope and only further pain and indignity.
My only concern is that suicide pods etc could be forced upon elderly relatives whose family members are tired of caring for them, am not saying they would be manhandled into a pod, but families can be very persuasive.
Food for thought.

I be agree.

However I do know a couple of non-family , non-elderly people I’d love to shove into a pod!

Re dementia, having seen both my mother and my FiL go through it, dh and I have added a paragraph to our Health and Welfare Powers of Attorney, to state that if we should develop dementia, or any other condition where we are unable both to care for ourselves, and speak (with full mental capacity) for ourselves, then we emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment.
It’s better than nothing!

At a fairly late stage in my mother’s dementia, I said more or less the same to her care home staff - she was already over 90 anyway. They agreed absolutely that it would not be in her best interests for any ‘striving to keep alive’ to be allowed.

TBH to me it would have been verging on cruelty - I was only too painfully aware of how my mother’s former self would have hated what she’d become, and would have been the first to say, ‘For goodness’ sake, just let me go!’

In the end she went on to 97 with no ‘striving’ but that was down to the very good care she’d received, and the fact that she had the general constitution of a rhinoceros.

From all I’ve ever heard, though, it’s often relatives, rather than medics, who insist on ‘striving’, regardless of the person’s quality of life, because, ‘I can’t bear to let Mum/Dad go.’

In principle I agree with assisted dying but there are pitfalls that worry me:

1. most of the legislative proposals would make it easier to choose assisted dying than be sectioned under the main sections of the Mental Health Act, not the emergency sections. You need 2 drs and a social worker, specially trained to section people for a long time, the social worker is there to ensure people's civil rights and suggest other ways forward than sectioning, I have never seen a similar proposal on assisted dying.

2. when animals are put down it is very difficult to avoid thinking 'should I have let them live longer' I imagine this would be worse with relatives.

3. It's very easy as an ill person to think you are wasting everyone's time & effort being alive & choose assisted dying for the wrong reasons.

4. Ditto for carers, for whatever reason some unscrupulous carers might pressure ill people, whether knowingly or not.

I think it needs separate legislation to cover the above, not just an informal agreement not to prosecute or similar