Our world has changed forever - assisted dying bill

nanna8

Going to hell in a handcart comes to mind on hearing this news. Visions of relatives seeking money, visions of doctors made complicit in murder, visions of the third reich.

good grief. I think perhaps you need to read the details of what has been proposed and passed. Your comment about the 'third reich' is particularly distasteful.

My useless MP didn't vote

This is an interesting post from Peston:

It talks specifically about the vote, who voted what and what happens next:

x.com/Peston/status/1862529688687518153?t=T879IJFJyzKdcu6yWnhtag&s=19

At least the news of the result of the vote was received in sombre silence in the Chamber, unlike the group of middle-aged women identifying as supporters by unattractive woolly hats, capering about cheering and shouting.
Unseemly.

In my example above of a relation and his mother, she was 80 and in poor physical health. She was unconscious after a heart attack at home from which she did not recover. The resuscitation was brutal. Physically brutal. A DNR in place would have prevented the son being exposed to a traumatic half hour.
Similar happened to my friend whose husband in pretty good health, in his early 70s, had a sudden heart attack at home. He died. She was traumatised.
Apparently paramedic resuscitation is not gentle like the TV.
In my friends case they had not thought of a DNR for heart attack situations as they considered themselves too young.
As do I!!!! At 75. But my husband has one at 80 and also in very poor health.
The GP set it up. Over the phone actually.
Without a DNR I think paramedics have to resuscitate despite how useless it may be. And it means resuscitate. Doesn't apply to whether you would benefit from antibiotics etc. It means resuscitate in the event of a heart attack.

Thank you Fleurpepper for your wise words and sharing your knowledge on this emotive subject. My husband and myself agree with you totally.

Back to the titled 'our world has changed forever'.

Switzerland is not considered to be a lefty liberal country, to say the least. And yet, Assisted Dying has been legal since the mid 40s- even before I was born in 1951. My mother was a founder member of Exit, and I was a member during the 40 years I lived in England (although I could not have asked for assistance in the UK, one has to be Swiss resident. There has been no slippery slope, at all- despite the remit of the Law being far wider than the proposed UK Law.

DH and I, now in our late and early 70s- are really reassured that we would now benefit from great assistance, and in our own home, if and when. Both fighting fit, and hope we just forget to wake up one morning in 20ish years time - but having that 'insurance' is so so reassuring.

Just to add, I did ring my GP's and was told there were no appointments and to go to a walk in clinic. I told them I could not walk anywhere so they told me to ring 111, luckily the lady on the phone heard I was having trouble breathing and sent an ambulance which probably saved my life. The second time I knew the symptoms before they got worse and I got a taxi to A & E and was pushed to the front of the queue as I could not breathe.

I cannot have the RSV injection as they say not enough tests have been done on the over 80's that is why the cuy off point is 79, ridiculous.

Apart from chest infections in the winter, I am fit and well apart from mild asthma which I take inhalers for.

NfkDumpling

I have signed a DNR, perhaps pneumonia will aid me. I hope that when my time approaches (hopefully years away), if no assisted dying is in place, my DC will aid me in secreting morphine while I'm well enough and help me take it when things get too much to take.

Since my MiL, DM, DF and DH all died from cancers in agony despite good palliative care, and since half the population now get a cancer at some time in their lives, I suspect I shall follow suit and dread it. I don't want my DC to have to watch me go through it. Nor do I want them to try to encourage me to keep going at all costs.

Much is made of the possibility of mecentary relatives 'encouraging' their loved ones to end it all early, but what of those who fight to keep granny (or a child) alive at all costs, fighting doctors and courts. Emotional blackmail can work both ways. What if granny has had enough, hates just laying there semi-conscious in front of day time telly, and wants to go, but family are wailing that they can't, they'd be too missed, please not yet?

Nfk Dumpling,

I am in my mid 80's, have had double pneumonia (in both lungs) twic just from having a cold and it going onto my chest and lungs then being rushed into hospital by ambulance, taken straight to Xray and put on IV antibiotics and other IV medication. If things had gone wrong and I had died, my DNR would have kicked in because I know from what the doctors in hospital told me, CPR could cause serious physical harm to the elderly. I was also told the same before my husband died but again he had signed a DNR and he died peacefully because bringing him back would have been cruel and painful as he had a terminal illness anyway.

poppysmum

could someone explain this bill simply for me please

It has been done multiple times on the couple of threads on the subject. The finalities of how it will work in practice have still to be defined, and it will take some time in consutations, etc.

But, basically, the new Law will allow terminally ill adults, with a medically predicted 6 months (approx) to live, to make the clear CHOICE, themselves, to apply to die a little earlier, to avoid increasing levels of pain and loss of dignity, by taking (themselves, NOT administered by doctor) a potion that will ensure a quick, painless death (with an anti-emetic (vomitting) drug given beforehand), under supervision. On application, the person will have to have the approval of two doctors, and those approvals will have to be ratified by a Judge.

GrandmaKT

Much is made of the possibility of mecentary relatives 'encouraging' their loved ones to end it all early, but what of those who fight to keep granny (or a child) alive at all costs, fighting doctors and courts. Emotional blackmail can work both ways. What if granny has had enough, hates just laying there semi-conscious in front of day time telly, and wants to go, but family are wailing that they can't, they'd be too missed, please not yet?

Thank you NfkDumpling this is similar to the point I was trying to make. If someone is 'of sound mind' and is ready to go, then (so long as they meet the stipulations of whatever legislation) then they should be allowed to do so.

I completely agree

petra

gentleshores
Have you heard the screams of someone screaming in pain in the last minutes of their life, I have: my uncle.
Have you held the hand of someone in the last stages of their life who was once this wonderful full of life man who is now blind, deaf, and weighing 4 stone, I have: my beautiful father in law.
Have you seen a person in the last stages of moto neurone disease: I have, my dear friends husband.
It is beyond me that someone would not want to end that suffering.
I will admit that in the case of my father in law the thought did cross my mind to do something.

👏👏👏

Allira

We do have to safeguard against doctors who write DNR on a patient's notes, as one Consultant did with my DH. The reason DH was taken into ICU was because of the negligence of another Consultant.
No-one told or with consulted with next of kin at all. I found out by accident and was furious and got it removed.

Yes, that’s awful

LadyInBlue

I have made out a DNR form which states if I die and bringing me back will result in me not being fully functional, I do not want resuscitating, just to give me palliative care and keep me comfortable.

Last year I was rushed into hospital as I was very ill and the doctor came to see me and said that she had seen that I had signed a DNR and that I was a very sensible lady and wished
more patients had taken the time to organise their lives like I had.

So isn't that like assisted dying, refusing to be resuscitated if I died.

Not really, my mother had a DNR and it’s very specific and covers only resuscitation.

My DM did not have a terminal illness, but had many other conditions, a frail lady in bad health and excruciating
daily pain from osteo-arthritis.

She never needed her DNR

We do have to safeguard against doctors who write DNR on a patient's notes, as one Consultant did with my DH. The reason DH was taken into ICU was because of the negligence of another Consultant.
No-one told or with consulted with next of kin at all. I found out by accident and was furious and got it removed.

This bill has not passed into law yet and has a long long way to go.

The safeguards are you have to be of sound mind, have a terminal illness, be diagnosed as only having 6 months or less as expected lifespan, have it signed off by two doctors, then a judge.

I’m so pleased this Bill is being read and I know too many people whose end of life was very painful and protracted

Much is made of the possibility of mecentary relatives 'encouraging' their loved ones to end it all early, but what of those who fight to keep granny (or a child) alive at all costs, fighting doctors and courts. Emotional blackmail can work both ways. What if granny has had enough, hates just laying there semi-conscious in front of day time telly, and wants to go, but family are wailing that they can't, they'd be too missed, please not yet?

Thank you NfkDumpling this is similar to the point I was trying to make. If someone is 'of sound mind' and is ready to go, then (so long as they meet the stipulations of whatever legislation) then they should be allowed to do so.

gentleshores
Have you heard the screams of someone screaming in pain in the last minutes of their life, I have: my uncle.
Have you held the hand of someone in the last stages of their life who was once this wonderful full of life man who is now blind, deaf, and weighing 4 stone, I have: my beautiful father in law.
Have you seen a person in the last stages of moto neurone disease: I have, my dear friends husband.
It is beyond me that someone would not want to end that suffering.
I will admit that in the case of my father in law the thought did cross my mind to do something.

Dickens I have only just started reading this thread and your post Fri 29th 17.51 stood out.
It accords exactly with my thoughts. An excellent post. Thank you.

I have signed a DNR, perhaps pneumonia will aid me. I hope that when my time approaches (hopefully years away), if no assisted dying is in place, my DC will aid me in secreting morphine while I'm well enough and help me take it when things get too much to take.

Since my MiL, DM, DF and DH all died from cancers in agony despite good palliative care, and since half the population now get a cancer at some time in their lives, I suspect I shall follow suit and dread it. I don't want my DC to have to watch me go through it. Nor do I want them to try to encourage me to keep going at all costs.

Much is made of the possibility of mecentary relatives 'encouraging' their loved ones to end it all early, but what of those who fight to keep granny (or a child) alive at all costs, fighting doctors and courts. Emotional blackmail can work both ways. What if granny has had enough, hates just laying there semi-conscious in front of day time telly, and wants to go, but family are wailing that they can't, they'd be too missed, please not yet?

could someone explain this bill simply for me please

Hi Cariad Again,

You are still a spring chicken. When I was your age, I was out still jiving away to rock n roll music, I am now mid to late 80's and can still jive and do the twist albeit get a bit out of breath. Luckily I have no serious illnesses to worry about, I still play all the 60's music when I am gardening. I only wish my lovely husband was still with me but he isn't so I live my life to the best of my ability.

I still buy clothes, perfume and jewellery and go for my nails and hair doing.

You are as young as you feel so enjoy life.

HelterSkelter1

The success rate of resuscitation is very low. Especially in the elderly.

Out of interest - what counts as the "elderly" range?

Genuine question - as I'm early 70's and I certainly don't regard myself as "elderly" and will deliberately avoid anything as being billed as "for the elderly".

The success rate of resuscitation is very low. Especially in the elderly.

Yes a DNR is so important as we age. Recently a youngish relation was present while paramedics tried to resucitate an elderly parent. Very traumatic for him. Would no doubt have resulted in broken ribs and no quality of life had she survived. Which she didnt. So her last half hour was traumatic instead of the son being able to sit with her and hold her hand. He has hardly come to terms with it.
No DNR was in place for her.