Teachers working from home

mbody

It’s about time working from work was introduced.

When was it stopped?

Frogs

Sadly son doesn’t get paid for all the extra hours he works either @Mollygo 😫

Is that another of those “and any other hours necessary to do the job” contracts like my DH had Froggy ?

Alison333

Cossy

I’m not really sure WFH can work at all for most mainstreams schools.

I know my daughter often brings home work, she’s an infant teacher, so things must be so much worse in Juniors and Secondary Schools.

Infant teachers have the same kind of workload as teachers of older children, if not more. It isn't just 'playing'. So many forms to complete etc and you can't ask the class to just get on with something!

Never call playing "just playing" as of playing were something inferior to learning. Children learn through play. All teachers of younf children especially should know that.

It’s about time working from work was introduced.

Sadly son doesn’t get paid for all the extra hours he works either @Mollygo 😫

Frogs

I can’t see why teachers can’t and obviously do work from home on certain tasks.

Paying teachers for the work they do at home would be a good start. It wouldn’t lessen the workload, but it would certainly be an acknowledgement of what has to be done.
That hasn’t happened under any government I’ve taught under.

It isn’t impossible to job-share teaching maths and English in primary, but particularly with maths, it is difficult. Marking provides formative assessment to address misconceptions or problems that children show in their work, so that they can be addressed in the next lesson(s).

The biggest problem I had when job sharing (3 days/2days) those subjects was finding time to communicate with the other half of the job share.

We found ways round it-e.g. emailing notes, comments etc, but that took extra time to do, and extra time for the other teacher to read and incorporate into her lessons and of course that was done at home.
There isn’t time in the day to do all that’s needed and anyway, WFH is dealt with under the except where it is not reasonably feasible.

Cossy

I’m not really sure WFH can work at all for most mainstreams schools.

I know my daughter often brings home work, she’s an infant teacher, so things must be so much worse in Juniors and Secondary Schools.

Infant teachers have the same kind of workload as teachers of older children, if not more. It isn't just 'playing'. So many forms to complete etc and you can't ask the class to just get on with something!

I can’t see why teachers can’t and obviously do work from home on certain tasks.
Whilst I appreciate that teachers put in long hours and theirs is not a 9-5 job, I do think the work place has changed in all recognition from what it was when I was younger and has got even worse since I retired.
My son works in the Aerospace industry in a stressful job and as in most jobs today he has to meet lots of targets.
He regularly works far more hours than he is paid for, never finishes work on time and a couple of days a week doesn’t get back from work till gone 10pm or later and still has to be at work for 7 am the next day. It is not a particularly highly paid job and there’s always staff shortages - I also fear about him suffering from burnout as he looks exhausted every time I see him.
He’s there today beavering away as will he be tomorrow Christmas Eve.
When I speak to my friends they all say their grown up children are equally stressed and overworked in a variation of different jobs.

No you are not out of touch. I too am a retired secondary teacher so identify with everything you say. Not enough time in school day to do prep, marking, forward planning, dept. admin, timetabling etc. on poss. 1 non contact per day. Always worked in evenings, weekends and during holidays....plus worked for exam board doing QA on markers and marking exam papers myself

My OH had no idea about teaching and its workload until he met me! He assumed it was 9-3.30 and realised that my evenings and Sundays were for schoolwork as were some of the holidays. I always stopped before 10pm and played netball on Saturday so no schoolwork then. My non contact times were so varied I could never have worked from home. After 35 years I gave up and I don’t miss it given how education is so challenging now.

My great niece finished her teacher training after Uni 2 years ago. Most of those on the course were desperate to qualify as they wanted the 12 weeks holiday! Seems touch of reality is missing in the new recruits. My GN is working in a primary school but only temporary contracts are given these days. Sad state of affairs.

The way I see it is that not all jobs lend themselves to wfh. A cleaner can't clean at home, just as a shop assistant can't sell things if she's not in a shop. On the other hand, there are bits of most jobs that could be done at home in lieu of being in the workplace, often admin, or in the case of teachers, marking and preparation. Many people could do some of their work at home, and not necessarily at the same time of day they would have done it in the workplace.

If that makes the job fit better with home life, so the worker is less stressed, then why not? In the case of teachers, the important thing is that all classes are covered, and that children are supervised. If that can happen, it seems to me churlish to insist that they have to be on site when marking or preparing classes, as though they can't be trusted to do their job professionally.

The fact that not everyone can wfh because of the nature of the job shouldn't prevent those who can from being able to do it, should it? My husband couldn't work from home, and had no flexibility whatsoever over his hours (legally there had to be someone qualified on the premises, so if the person taking over his shift was ill or late he had to wait until a replacement was found before he could leave). I had a lot of flexibility in my work, and regularly worked from home, meaning I could get a later bus in and not waste time stuck in traffic, I could go to Nativity plays if they were at a time when I had no commitments in the workplace, I could be in for deliveries and so on. The flip side was that at busy times I would often be working very late, I always checked email on holiday in case a student needed something, I would go in on Saturdays for open days and so on. If I hadn't met deadlines and done everything expected of me it would have been discussed at my annual appraisal.

My working at home didn't affect my husband, and if he'd played the 'It's not fair' card he would have got short shrift . You know when you go into a career what the conditions are likely to be, and whether this is something you are happy with or not. My DIL is working 13 hours on Christmas Day, but she knew when she went into nursing that this was likely to happen. You can't nurse if you are not in the ward with the patients. Does that mean that teachers shouldn't have some flexibility in their hours? I can't see the connection.

I am not sure that the role of the "Deputy Head" is always understood by non-teachers. It isn't just "The one who stands in for the Headteacher when they are not there". The Deputy Head has all kinds of responsibilities of his/her own. Discipline is usually one. You can't do that from home.

Dil is a deputy head (secondary) and usually works an average of 60hrs pw, Dd is ASN department head (secondary) and works similar hours. Neither of them could wfh very readily as they need to actually be in the school to deal with situations that arise.

I'm sympathetic to the unpaid hours a good teacher puts in, but as the family member of NHS staff and Police staff, please remind me of how many Christmas Days (let alone any other Bank holidays) teachers are obliged to work. My niece (NHS) is working her 3rd consecutive Christmas Day, and my son is working his 3rd out of 4 Christmas Days, and will like all police be on duty New Year's Eve.

At the start of PPA, I still remember the concerns raised by some parents about whether teachers might do other non-school related things if they were allowed PPA at home.
The head reported that he and other heads received many phone-calls from parents who had seen Mrs X or Mr Y out of school on their PPA time and “weren’t they supposed to be working?”

If you’ve never done the job, or had a teacher for a mother, as my DD’s put it, you have no idea of the work that gets done out of school hours.
One afternoon a week (primary) is useful, but doesn’t cover half of it especially if you get called away to deal with an emergency.
Job shares are more frequent now, but to have a situation mentioned by Elegran, you would, as she mentioned, have to have sufficient funding. Labour supports people’s right to work from home, but I suspect there won’t be the money for Elegran’s proposal.
Teachers are probably excluded from the working from home that labour supports through the let out clause “except where it is not reasonably feasible”

At the moment, the job share teacher does marking, assessment and planning at home, unpaid like all the others.

A bright girl I know, a friend’s daughter, who was head girl and had her pick of universities, dropped out of teaching this year due to burnout, trying to work all the hours god gives you with a toddler that she never saw. She now works in the civil service for more money and only works 9-5. Such a pity that students have lost a bright, engaging young teacher.

Doodledog

I never understand why people not in the workplace of the people concerned are bothered about others working from home. If the Head can manage the situation so all the classes are covered, work is prepared and marked and children are not left alone, that's what matters.

Things are very different from how they used to be, and I wonder if that is the crux of the matter - those who left the workplace some time ago maybe struggle to understand that.

Being able to log into a work system from anywhere means that 'presenteeism' is no longer necessary. That doesn't meant that people are skiving. If they want to go to their child's Nativity and they are not teaching at the time, why not? The marking or preparation that might have otherwise happened on school premises can just as easily be done in the evening or on Saturday. It a bit of flexibility helps to retain teachers, why do other people care?

A teacher gets 10% non-contact time. In a secondary school, that's usually 3 frees, scattered throughout the week. (Having 2 in 1 day is horrible). And obviously there's tutor time, usually at the start of the day, and briefing meetings before school.
I used to work a ten minute car journey from school, a couple of miles. I'd be in school early as traffic was easier to predict.
So if I worked from home in my 1hr free, I'd spend 30mins plus in traffic - how is that more attractive? Mind you Ken Barlow in Corrie was always popping home during the day, so was Kathy in the Archers, she used to pull a few pints in her frees!

Not knitting, but…

Baggs

Knitting in staff meetings sounds fine to me. /you can still listen while knitting.

I read while knitting too, so long as it's plain knitting.

Knitting would never be tolerated in my former school. No-one would dare.
Times have changed.

Knitting in staff meetings sounds fine to me. /you can still listen while knitting.

I read while knitting too, so long as it's plain knitting.

Not going to work in Early Years classrooms, is it?!
My four, the children of two teachers, and nephew and nieces of teachers were clear that it's the one job they would not do, and they have stayed true to their word.
Retention of teachers is a significant problem- many leave in the first few years, never to return.

Doodledog

I never understand why people not in the workplace of the people concerned are bothered about others working from home. If the Head can manage the situation so all the classes are covered, work is prepared and marked and children are not left alone, that's what matters.

Things are very different from how they used to be, and I wonder if that is the crux of the matter - those who left the workplace some time ago maybe struggle to understand that.

Being able to log into a work system from anywhere means that 'presenteeism' is no longer necessary. That doesn't meant that people are skiving. If they want to go to their child's Nativity and they are not teaching at the time, why not? The marking or preparation that might have otherwise happened on school premises can just as easily be done in the evening or on Saturday. It a bit of flexibility helps to retain teachers, why do other people care?

I am not opposed to the idea in principle, but I’d like to know how it can be made to work, without spending more money to employ more staff to be in school whilst teachers are WFH. There are a lot of ‘ifs’ in your first paragraph.
And how to still get everything done in the time available. Even better, how to reduce the amount of time teachers need to work weekends, evenings and in the holidays.

Possibly allowing more part-time or job share posts might help, but we have many part-time GPs and whilst that helps the individuals’ work-life balance, it doesn’t help to cover the actual workload. It is just not possible to magic up more GPs, nor can more teachers appear out of nowhere, though if this scheme helps to retain more, that will help.
Those who have retired from teaching are well placed to know how demanding the job is, and I don’t doubt that the demands and expectations continue to increase.

When I was an LA inspector, we monitored home education, but don't know if that still happens eazybee.
When I started teaching in the seventies people would rock up five minutes before the bell, go home at lunchtime and leave when the bell rang at 4pm. Unthinkable now. I also remember people knitting in staff meetings.

In Primary schools PPA time is usually taken in a half day block. It can’t be in blocks of less than an hour.

Currently the ability to work from home is at the Head’s discretion. The class would already be covered.
Some schools have teachers who teach a foreign language to cover the class teacher’s PPA, others employ Sports coaches. HLTAs
( Higher Level Teaching Assistants) cover classes in some schools.

In a Primary School all of the available space is usually taken up and there would be nowhere to work undisturbed. Teachers can be found working in staff rooms where there may be activities with children going on or others having meetings.
Whist in school a teacher might need to go back in class, to support with a child for example.

Working from home is far more productive and enables a period of uninterrupted time to get on with elements of a heavy stressful workload. Of course teachers work from home evenings and weekends too.
Retired teacher and current Governor