Tax cheats, do you know one?

Grammaretto it's not the paying in cash that's really the issue it's the builder/plumber/cleaner maybe not declaring it.

The declaring of it via their accounts is their business not ours. The problem is that some offer a "without VAT price for cash and then don't put it through the books.

I'm sure we know this and nobody here needed me to say it!
Apologies.

NotSpaghetti

Grammaretto it's not the paying in cash that's really the issue it's the builder/plumber/cleaner maybe not declaring it.

The declaring of it via their accounts is their business not ours. The problem is that some offer a "without VAT price for cash and then don't put it through the books.

Actually company accounts are for public perusal 😄😄. If you can be bothered of course!

The latest high profile tax cheat was the football manager - can’t remember his name. He died owing tax of over £8million. I think HMRC can recover about £4million of it.

I discovered recently from someone else that someone I know "sold off their rental property years ago to buy London flats for their children " I didn't know they had a rental even though I'veknown them more than 40 years... They had apparently never declared the tax and had had the house for maybe 30 years. I've no idea where it was.
It did make me pretty cross.

ViceVersa

I didn't realise there were some areas where you didn't have to register as a landlord. You certainly do here in Scotland.

There are plenty of areas in England where you don’t have to. Why it’s not mandatory everywhere I don’t understand, except that councils probably excuse themselves by saying they’d need a lot of extra staff, and reason that the charge to landlords would cause too many to sell up.

Ww2, it was Sven Goren Eriksen.

Witzend

ViceVersa

I didn't realise there were some areas where you didn't have to register as a landlord. You certainly do here in Scotland.

There are plenty of areas in England where you don’t have to. Why it’s not mandatory everywhere I don’t understand, except that councils probably excuse themselves by saying they’d need a lot of extra staff, and reason that the charge to landlords would cause too many to sell up.

Thanks, Witzend, I didn't realise that. I suppose that I just assumed it was mandatory throughout the UK, as it is here in Scotland.

As far as I know it was reported that Sven died owing a large tax bill, not that he was a tax cheat. Very different.

Where are you getting your information from WW2 and loopyloo?

Ilovecheese

I am rather proud of paying tax.
I don't think legal tax avoidance is anything to be proud of, still less evasion.

Does that mean you deliberately avoid saving money in ISAs? Do/did not pay into any pension fund and way back when did not claim mortgage tax relief or child tax relief, if appropriate?

I probably know far more than I've ever known benefit cheats, but I don't care, unduly.
Certainly not enough to get outraged about it.

No I don’t know anyone because I ve never asked, and don’t think I personally know any landlords so no idea
Not really part of my life

The people who are paid in cash and don’t give an invoice or receipt are probably unlikely to be declaring those earnings, mainly for tax purposes but for other reasons too. Those of you who are saying it’s not my business would feel very differently if they know someone who was trying to claim child maintenance from an absent parent. The absent parent only declares very low earnings so that they pay pennies for their children.

Also, bear in mind that if you pay cash for a job and don’t get a receipt, you have no proof if you have problems later.

Yes, I have reported a tax dodger. I understand that if nothing else it causes a lot of inconvenience to them trying to prove they did declare the job.

M0nica

Ilovecheese

I am rather proud of paying tax.
I don't think legal tax avoidance is anything to be proud of, still less evasion.

Does that mean you deliberately avoid saving money in ISAs? Do/did not pay into any pension fund and way back when did not claim mortgage tax relief or child tax relief, if appropriate?

If so, that is so altruistic!
Sacrificial for the good of others.

I'm amazed.

PamelaJ1

FriedGreenTomatoes2

There’s tax avoidance which is legal (I think) and a good accountant would advise what can be used to mitigate the amount payable.

Then there’s tax evasion involves concealing information and is illegal.

I don’t know anyone who earns enough to have an accountant.
Including us.

You don’t have to earn huge amounts to have an accountant if you are self employed.
I am still doing a bit of work, only about £8000/year but that’s on top of my pension so it’s all taxable. I’ve just paid what I owe this year.
I don’t understand how anyone can get away with renting out a property without declaring it. All the information is there for the IR to access. Are the renters paying cash? If not then there is another trail for the authorities to follow. Who is paying the council tax and the buildings insurance? If I was renting I would want the agreement legally drawn up, yet another trail.
I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night!

As I said, in a lot of cases there is nobody a landlord officially needs to tell that they are letting a property. The Land Registry states the owner, and whether there’s a mortgage, but it doesn’t say whether the property is owner-occupied or rented to tenants.
So unless someone informs HMRC, I don’t see how they’re going to be aware of smaller LLs who are failing to declare their income.

If there’s a mortgage, the owner is supposed to inform the lender that they’re going to be letting the property but I dare say quite a few don’t, since the interest rate will typically be higher.
I do wonder how many ‘accidental’* LLs fail to inform the lender, if there is one.

*IMO there’s no such thing. It’s always a conscious decision to let a property - almost always because it makes financial sense.

nandad

The people who are paid in cash and don’t give an invoice or receipt are probably unlikely to be declaring those earnings, mainly for tax purposes but for other reasons too. Those of you who are saying it’s not my business would feel very differently if they know someone who was trying to claim child maintenance from an absent parent. The absent parent only declares very low earnings so that they pay pennies for their children.

Also, bear in mind that if you pay cash for a job and don’t get a receipt, you have no proof if you have problems later.

Yes, I have reported a tax dodger. I understand that if nothing else it causes a lot of inconvenience to them trying to prove they did declare the job.

Those of you who are saying it’s not my business would feel very differently if they know someone who was trying to claim child maintenance from an absent parent. The absent parent only declares very low earnings so that they pay pennies for their children.
Yes, I have come across that and it was the other parent I know
but it was years ago.

But that is different altogether from someone avoiding paying tax by perfectly legal means, but apparently frowned upon by some. It involves lying, deviousness and usually manipulative and controlling behaviour.

I have no problem with people who use legitimate means to avoid paying more tax than they otherwise would. It’s up to the government to close the schemes they use. However, some of those schemes are there for a purpose, such as investment in research and development which is important to the country and the economy and therefore carries tax incentives.

Yes I do , my dh is a self employed electrician but subcontracts for a large company, so is everything is above board .
However we know builders and plumbers who are paid in cash and don’t declare it.
During Covid they were moaning about not getting much in government grants because their accounts showed a low income, which made me chuckle .
I’m also self employed and have always used an accountant. I was investigated by hmrc as to my SE status and my accountant was worth her weight in gold .

MissAdventure

I probably know far more than I've ever known benefit cheats, but I don't care, unduly.
Certainly not enough to get outraged about it.

And this is the reason I posted this thread. People are constantly outraged about benefit cheats, and yes, we should all be. But are very happy to close a blind eye about tax cheats, small, medium, large or more. And yet they cost the State, and by this I mean what the State has to do with it, NHS, education, social services, transport, environment, and so mcuh more- much much more in lost revenue.

And we all know here I am not talking about ISAs or paying a few quid in cash to the window cleaner!

Our window cleaner leaves a bill and is paid by BACS.

I'm not outraged by others financial arrangements.

It's enough trying to manage mine, living in fear of having disability benefit stopped or being investigated, although what for, I don't know.

I always feel I'm some sort of a fraud, even though I know I'm not.
That's why I get cross at the suggestion that someone might decide "Ah, she looks as if she might be on the fiddle, somehow".

I consider paying tax is a social responsibility which helps to pay for the services on which we all depend, and I am happy to do so.
I would have thought that tax lost through international companies who operate in U.K. but do not pay full U.K. tax through complex tax arrangements, far outweighs the sum lost through benefit fraud?

I have dealt with two kinds of tradesmen in the last year: one was working for a company and I paid by card, so I would assume the money would go to his company and he would be on a taxable salary. The other was a plumber that I paid in cash and whether he declared this or not isn't my problem.

Farzanah

I consider paying tax is a social responsibility which helps to pay for the services on which we all depend, and I am happy to do so.
I would have thought that tax lost through international companies who operate in U.K. but do not pay full U.K. tax through complex tax arrangements, far outweighs the sum lost through benefit fraud?

I was just about to say something similar. Isn't it funny how some people get their knickers all in a twist about individuals not paying a bit of tax (and I'm not condoning tax evasion at all, by the way), but when it comes to these companies who go all out to avoid paying tax in the UK, somehow that's not so bad?

I agree it's really bad and get just as cross what these international companies get away with - my assumption is that it's either very hard or actually not possible to hold them to account. -but I don't understand enough about the ways they operate to dodge paying tax in individual countries.