Behaviour of Celtic fans, should it be tolerated?

nandad

Husband is a season ticket holder for a premier league team. When we’re away he passes it on to our 30 yo son. Son has said that he has never experienced such foul mouthed, nasty behaviour in all his years of going to rugby. A lot of it is coming from women, and not young women, and worst of all there are young children sitting in the seats around them. One woman screaming racist comments at a player was humiliated when told that the player she was naming wasn’t even on the pitch!

I was at a league match this afternoon, plenty of women there within shouting distance of me, and I didn't hear one obscenity from any of them. As for racism, I haven't heard any racist comments in 20 years that wasn't immediately shouted down by those around the person concerned, but then I haven't heard any racist shouts in years. Yes, there were 2 boys (maybe 9 or 10) making lewd gestures to pretty much anyone - not sure dad was quite on the ball.

Galaxy

Yes but I dont want people being punished because of perceived disrespect.

Hear, hear.

But, in the interests of free-speech we're expected to accept and tolerate it

I think this is an incorrect interpretation. If certain behaviour, including 'violent' speech, leads to physical violence, we are not asked to tolerate it at all.

Freedom of speech is about tolerating differences of opinion, people simply expressing their views about things even when you may 'violently' disagree with them as often happens in, say, politics.

The chant about the royal family is uncouth but did it lead to any violence (other than "the usual" between thuggish football fans - who are the minority by a long way?

Yes but I dont want people being punished because of perceived disrespect.

Husband is a season ticket holder for a premier league team. When we’re away he passes it on to our 30 yo son. Son has said that he has never experienced such foul mouthed, nasty behaviour in all his years of going to rugby. A lot of it is coming from women, and not young women, and worst of all there are young children sitting in the seats around them. One woman screaming racist comments at a player was humiliated when told that the player she was naming wasn’t even on the pitch!

Galaxy

My family have attended football matches for twenty years with no problems. I dont really think if you hate the royal family clap your hands should be met with punishment.

It’s disrespectful, but could equally apply to posters on a social media site if you read some of the posts.

In 1960 my cousin was engaged to a Catholic and took instructions to convert to faith. Then she changed her mind. Husband to be didnt mind but priest was annoyed and marriage service was over in 5 minutes!

Anniebach

Words can feed violent actions and surly a spoken threat to kill
is violent

Good point Anniebach.

People are quick to condemn violent hooliganism - but, where does it start?

Some of these chants are little more than battle-hymns.

But, in the interests of free-speech we're expected to accept and tolerate it.

Football is sport - it's a game - not a damned war.

I think it's possible to respect people without necessarily respecting their beliefs, especially as one generally doesn't know what other people's beliefs are except rather vaguely.

Ii is still prevalent today.

However, I have not tarred everyone with the same brush. Every religion has bigots, however we rarely hear about the majority, who are decent people.

After twenty years of marriage, my DIL, without any influence from us, decided to convert to Catholicism. Her father refused to speak to her or us for months.
People learn from their parents. I hope that my DH and I have taught our children to respect all faiths, without any discrimination.

Marydoll

ViceVersa

LovelyLady

Perhaps if you lived their lives you’d understand. Living as a secondhand being in a country that’s not given equal status is difficult to understand when you live South of the border. Some who live in Scotland also dont understand. Try being a RC who has been refused many many jobs due only to their religious affiliation. Not through lack of qualifications, only due to religion. Many are not equal in Scotland today.

What complete and utter nonsense!

It is not nonsense. My husband experienced this more than fifty years ago.
What school you went to, RC or non denominational, did make a difference in the West of Scotland.

Fifty years ago yes, and in the west of Scotland, yes - but it's certainly not the case in many other parts of Scotland, so please don't tar us all with the same sectarian brush!

I remember my mother telling me when she was growing up in London in the 20s and 30s people could be somewhat "sniffy" about Catholics, but I don't think it was an issue in my earlier years. Whilst I went to Catholic schools there was never an expectation to not mix with people from other denominations. People who harbour prejudices towards others they haven't got to know based on historical prejudices are utterly ridiculous.

When we lived in Ayrshire, we had to sell our home. Once he found out we were Catholics, our neighbour made our life hell.
I won't go into details, but it got so bad, I had a breakdown. To this day, I cannot bear to think about it.
Yet having been brought up in Glasgow, I had never experienced anything like that.

Unless you have experienced it, you can have no conception of how bad it is.

Sectarian nonsense seems focused on Glasgow area. The people perpetrating it must be just plain thick. Commercial football teams are making a profit from them so won't condone their behaviour.

I am an Irish Catholic but have liven in England all my life.

The only time I have experienced this sectarian behaviour was when I had a dinner guest from Glasgow, he was the father of a friend.

He verbally attacked me, he started quizzing me on my faith and telling me I should be ashamed.
He was so vitriolic I was close to tears, unfortunately my husband was away otherwise I think he would have been physically thrown out.

I did ask him to leave, my friend was horrified she said she had no idea how strongly he felt about Catholics.

"What school you went to, RC or non denominational, did make a difference in the West of Scotland."
I would qualify that by saying it was/is true of the South West of Scotland (including the Glasgow area). Growing up as I did in the North West of Scotland, I was totally unaware of any antipathy between Protestants and Catholics. I was therefore astonished when I arrived at Glasgow University to discover the degree of animosity between the two local tribes. The first time I saw Celtic supporters en masse, I assumed from their flags and banners that they were all Southern Irish and not Scots at all.

Anti-Catholic bias is still around and not just in Scotland either.

I joined a group recently and when I said which school I had attended the room went quiet.

I went back a few times but it was clear they didn't know what to do with me so I stopped going.

I am not a royalist but these sorts of chants are just spiteful, whoever is being referred to. I loathed Thatcher but I thought the chants made on her death were equally spiteful and unnecessary. Why do people feel the need to do this sort of thing? I don't, however, think they should be prosecuted.

Some football supporters just enjoy being rowdy and disruptive. I think they enjoy it because it makes them feel powerful - they wouldn't behave in such a way if they were on their own. It is certainly not pleasant to be amongst them after a match. I hate going on the tube when there has been a football match.

I do understand that there is a historic context for some of the chants relating to religion and nationhood - eg resentment of England, Westminster, etc. That, I think, is more understandable (though, Anniebach, your treatment at the hands of the English might make you reflect on the situation of other people who have also had their everyday lives controlled by more powerful nations).

ViceVersa

LovelyLady

Perhaps if you lived their lives you’d understand. Living as a secondhand being in a country that’s not given equal status is difficult to understand when you live South of the border. Some who live in Scotland also dont understand. Try being a RC who has been refused many many jobs due only to their religious affiliation. Not through lack of qualifications, only due to religion. Many are not equal in Scotland today.

What complete and utter nonsense!

It is not nonsense. My husband experienced this more than fifty years ago.
What school you went to, RC or non denominational, did make a difference in the West of Scotland.

Chardy

The word hooligan seems to have been used in this thread. To me, a hooligan is 'a violent person who fights or causes damage in public places'. None of these supporters did that.

Here is the context.
QuoteAllira Fri 31-Jan-25 16:45:10
Sago I went to a Notts Forest match when I was young (the only professional football match I've been to) and it seemed good-tempered with none of the crude, nasty behaviour found now, despite the fact laws to deal with hooliganism have been passed since then.

Sorry if you disapprove of the term, Chardy but I stand by my post.

Chardy

The word hooligan seems to have been used in this thread. To me, a hooligan is 'a violent person who fights or causes damage in public places'. None of these supporters did that.

I used the word as it is an accepted legal term.

The CPS and Police are committed to taking a robust stance towards tackling football-related offending, including disorder, hooliganism and hate crime.

Hasn't there always been trouble because Celtic and Rangers are Catholic and Protestant? I remember being in Glasgow years ago when there was a game being played and I was told to be careful.

Chardy

The word hooligan seems to have been used in this thread. To me, a hooligan is 'a violent person who fights or causes damage in public places'. None of these supporters did that.

I beg to differ. I would say that throwing smoke bombs onto the pitch counts as hooligan behaviour - and, I might add, something which has earned Celtic a disciplinary notice from UEFA. And singing about the IRA in a city which suffered the pub bombing?

The word hooligan seems to have been used in this thread. To me, a hooligan is 'a violent person who fights or causes damage in public places'. None of these supporters did that.

That's true LovelyLady. I went for a part time job in a bonded warehouse when my children were young in the '80's. I was asked to complete the application form when we were sitting waiting. I added my secondary school, as requested, and a woman sitting next to me told me to go and ask for another form as I'd made a mistake. My mistake was writing my RC secondary school. She said I would never get an interview/job with that on the form.