The lives of women ....

Love this. Thanks for highlighting.

Brilliant poem. I was thinking of Sarah everard who was just walking home.
And the people who covered up the disturbing behaviour of her murderer.

Brilliant poet and brilliant poem, I'm going to look for more of her work, thank you Luckygirl13.
I agree that young men are also at risk but this poem is about women and written by a woman. Not her problem that we don't know about any poems written about fears for young men!

Good post Luckygirl3.
The world is a completely different place from how it was in my teens...60 years ago. And my grandparents' youth was 100 years ago. Absolutely nothing like today. So how we behaved then is totally irrelevant.
Even 25 years ago in my DC late teens and 20s is in the past.
I am truly sad for young women now having to learn to contend with such difficulties in every day life.
I am horrified by the male pack mentality shown by police officers protecting themselves and their colleagues from accountability in so many cases of violence against women. Their casual distribution and sharing of pornography. And these are men in positions of trust. What example do they set to young men. You see it in the Services as well.
It is the pack I fear more than the random offender.

JaneJudge

I agree with you luckygirl. Knife crime petrifies me tbqh as well but it's a different issue

... Knife crime petrifies me tbqh as well but it's a different issue

Precisely JJ.

If we want to discuss the 'lives of women' in future, maybe we should add a ryder noting that we are aware that men can and do suffer assault, injustice and discrimination, and acknowledge the fact that when we talk about men collectively this also means - not-all-men?

Otherwise these debates tend to focus on the defence of all those decent men out there; the problems they face etc, rather than the lives of women who are affected by those that aren't.

I agree with you luckygirl. Knife crime petrifies me tbqh as well but it's a different issue

Most men are safe.
Some men are a danger to women- 100 killed each year, many more raped/ assaulted/ hurt.
Women need to be vigilant, as these men can be difficult to distinguish.
Women will need to maintain vigilance.
I am sorry if I disagree with others who want to talk about victimhood, or what children say to each other in class, or that all of the men they know, privately and professionally, are delightful, or that knife crime is a massive issue . All of these matters may, or may not, be relevant,but I don't see that this alters the facts.

I do think the poet has something to say about how women's lives are lived and how this is often unsatisfactory - we have concerns and fears that men do not have.

The need to take sensible precautions when out and about is just one of these. Tragic occurrences make the media because they are relatively rare; but one of the reasons for that might be that women ar4 taking these precautions.

I know of no parent who does not warn their chidlren about the dangers out there. The poem is looking at all the things that young women have ahead of them and need to be aware of. When it is spelt out like that it does make you realise what challenges women face; things that we have just soldiered on with.

I think the world is now a more dangerous place for women in spite of all the advances we have all seen over our lifetimes. The influence of porn on young men cannot be glossed over, even though we might like to feel that our GSs are not involved. They are - it is everywhere from a young age, and this does impinge on the girls in ways that I am guessing it did not in the past. Girly mags are peanuts compared with the evil that is being peddled now. And young men have the influence of the likes of Tate pulling them in the wrong direction.

I adore my 5 grandsons and hope that they will grow up to be decent young men - some already are - so it is not about labelling men as a blanket threat. But it is a concern that they are subject to all these influences that go on to impinge on young women's lives.

In some ways life is improving - for example the tolerance of difference by young people is second nature to them in a way that it was not for many previous generations and this is to be applauded.

The poet is a young women and she is expressing life as she sees it - it will inevitably be different to our own experiences and it is worth learning from this. I think she voices the feelings of many young women and we need to hear this.

Women are more likely to shoplift as I said, if I remember rightly they are more likely to be involved in neglect cases with regard to children, I feel no sense of concern when these issues are discussed.

Again all men.

But murdering criminals make the news because they are so rare and they will be around even if women never met attempts to intimidate them in any other aspecct of their lives.

Stephen Port, Denis Nilssen, Colin Ireland all targetted gay men. Each serial killer to their own.

Any woman's refusal to feel intimidated would have not deterred Levi Bellfield, for example.

As I said, I am more worried about my grandson. He might inadvertently offend another boy in school and the next day that boy could turn up with a knife and kill him.

I am with Rula . From the time I went to university I studied and worked in predominantly male environments. Men have tried to frighten and intimidate me, but they haven't succeeded, or it could be just that I am flat chested.

Are these little girls going to grow out of the idea that males hate females though? Especially if they don't have regular contact with their dads?

So difficult. And boys are internalising the idea that they are threatening/unacceptable in some way.

But the original poem does vividly express the concerns, not just about male violence but about the position women find themselves in.

I do worry for my GD as she embarks on secondary school and a whole new set of relationships and increasing independence. Choppy waters .......

Such an interesting thread.
It's totally worrying for primary aged girls to be calling the boys "misogynists" though. We used to say they were naughty & noisy & smelly I suppose - they'd call us crybabies & goody-goodies.But we grew out of that.
Are these little girls going to grow out of the idea that males hate females though?Especially if they don't have regular contact with their dads?

Absolutely Norah.
100 women a year killed by their men.
I am happy that you never felt intimidated or frightened by men, Rula, but the statistics support a degree of caution.

Galaxy

My sons etc would never feel threatened in any way by people discussing Male violence. It is not that all men are a danger it is that in terms of violence and sexual assault in particular they are more dangerous than women.

Agreed.

My tiny (5'10) husband knows he is no danger to others. He's quite cautious not ever even be alone with any females who are not family members. Why put himself to danger from false talk? He's not at all threatened by talk of male violence. He's not daft - males can be violent and some are dangerous to women.

My sons etc would never feel threatened in any way by people discussing Male violence. It is not that all men are a danger it is that in terms of violence and sexual assault in particular they are more dangerous than women.

Chocolatelovinggran

I agree absolutely Galaxy. Some men present a danger to women and I am saddened to see that women at risk of assault are accused of assuming a " blanket of victimhood".
I think the data is 100 women killed a year by a partner or ex partner: that's a lot of mothers, daughters, sisters, nieces, friends...

I'm small and thin, tiny with enormous breasts. I know unless covered carefully, I attract attention - I cover up. I can't meet the strength of men even with caution. I don't go out alone in unsafe areas, never have.

It's not "victimhood" - it's logic.

I think the data is 100 women killed a year by a partner or ex partner: that's a lot of mothers, daughters, sisters, nieces, friends

Yes and it's shocking.

But these women are killed by their partners. Not by men you might bump into as you walk home.

My 10 year old grandson asked us what a misogynist was the other day. The girls are calling the boys misogynists. Where is this coming from?

This needs to stop.

I grew up very aware of my self I was never frightened or intimidated by men. Couple of girls in my private school used to scare me though.

It's dangerous to suggest all men are a danger to women. It's awful to our beloved fathers, grandfather's, sons and grandsons.

Yes, of course women have experienced assault ad harrassment, but so have men.

While there are a subset of young girls/women who turn themselves into 'dolls' in order to appease men. They are not the majority of young girls and women. If you see a girl like that she does rather stand out compared with other girls her age. There is one who works in my local building society. But looking around when I am out, the 'dolls' are not the majority by a long way.

It is like with children, when children played out, there was safety in numbers, if girls were prepared to walk out there would be safety in numbers.

But when you consider the number of young men, no, not young men - boys - who are murdered each week by a contemporaries. How many boys under 16 have been knifed to death in the last three months - and how many girls. It seems to me that boys are more at risk than girls. As when my children were teenagers. I worry more about my DGS being the victim of random violence that could take his life than I do about his 17 year old sister.

I agree absolutely Galaxy. Some men present a danger to women and I am saddened to see that women at risk of assault are accused of assuming a " blanket of victimhood".
I think the data is 100 women killed a year by a partner or ex partner: that's a lot of mothers, daughters, sisters, nieces, friends...

I dont know whether individual anecdotes are helpful, but maybe it is all we have, I would say that I know many women who have experienced assault or harassment, so does that trump Monica's story, I dont know.
As I say the poem isnt my thing, but I think it is possible to talk about Male violence without scapegoating all men, or making women victims.

I have no idea about your background or upbringing M0nica but just because you or your parents are or were enlightened does not mean that there are not hundreds of thousands of girls who blindly follow “influencers” or the Kardashians or reels on Tik-Tok and may have boyfriends who behave and think like Andrew Tait.
Sadly you only have to look at the doll like stereotyped faces- over-plumped up lips, micro bladed eyebrows, long fake gel nails, enhanced buttocks, boob jobs, and false eyelashes like two wandering caterpillars to know that your views are not theirs - if only they were!
No they do not. I have never felt obliged to please men, it would never have occurred to my mother or grandmother to do so, so I wasn't taught to either

Rosie51

We know it's not all men, that hardly needs saying, but you can guarantee it will be a woman who leaps to state this. Galaxy mentions that shoplifting is much more prevalent amongst women but you'd better not hold your breath waiting for a man to indignantly declare 'not all women'.

Ah, the voice of reason.