How important are qualifications?

My second degree was my professional qualification. Unfortunately I was in a profession formed in 1958 that merged with a nother professionalgroup around 2000.

After a couple of years i did not bother to renew my membership, the much bigger group swallowed us whole, and the specialist are we covered was completely ignored.

I have a degree and a professional qualification. I have also just started a new job, at the age of 68. I think that it would be much more difficult to find work at my age if I couldn't write FCA after my name.

Education and qualifications are not the same thing, often have little relation to each other.
I think real education is learning how to think critically; qualifications are exams passed.
For some jobs, eg medicine, nursing, you rightly have to have the qualifications. But the great practitioners also have the ability to listen, understand and react thoughtfully.

My family are nearly all either academics or medical personnel with one exception- a son in law who is a tradie. No prizes for guessing who earns the most by a country mile! Which doesn’t upset me at all - he works hard and long hours too. Eventually the grandson who is a doctor will earn more but he has to pay back a huge university debt first.

The argument over Reynolds is ridiculous. I doubt there was any wilful deceit here. No damage has been done to a client as far as we know. What he said in the HoC was "When I was working as a solicitor ..." Presumably he was doing the work of a solicitor under supervision.

Call an ambulance and the paramedic who attends you could be in year one, two, three or four of their training. They are still working as a paramedic. Same as the youngster who cuts your hair. They may still be serving their apprenticeship but they are still working as a hairdresser.

I see that Reform say they are bringing a private prosecution.

www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/reynolds-errors-over-calling-myself-a-solicitor-not-a-huge-deal

What showboating fools. They should perhaps check what the Byline Times revealed about James McMurdock.

bylinetimes.com/2024/07/17/reform-mp-james-mcmurdock-lied-to-voters-former-colleague-alleges/

You won't find his LinkedIn CV as he doesn't post it under his full name, which is curious, isnt it? He's toned it down since Byline exposed him but he's still claiming to be something he wasn't.

Glass houses.

I am inclined to agree Deedaa about the big university con that was largely spawned by Tony Blair’s “education, education, education” mantra.
I suppose the disillusioned Tories were comforted by Blairs’ pledge.

Everyone else was just thinking “why?” Then when the student loans reared their ugly heads and grants were removed well it was too too late. You’ve sold your soul virtually on a three year course often with no clear idea why or even if you like it.

At the same time as all this further education colleges were dumbing down their offerings or at any rate being starved of cash.
So erm where were all the plumber, electricians, hairdressers, cobblers, key cutters and window cleaners etc etc coming from?
All that has been achieved is a whole generation that have grown up with the notion that it is University or nothing, plus many (but not all by any means) well into their twenties are infantilised to an obscene level.
And it makes me cringe when voting being allowed at age 16 is put forward.

Many know nothing and don’t want to, but worse still they are completely ignorant about workers rights, what unions do, because it is all out of their living memory.
Of course keeping kids in “education” until they are 19 is ideal for governments.
They can’t claim benefits, can’t leave home, and they can legally get paid a lower rate of the minimum wage.. that is shocking in itself.

I think that there is so much mistrust of institutions by the public certainly since the Brexit farce and Boris then Covid and more Boris and his mostly corrupt and lying cabinet.

This has led to people thinking -(rightly or wrongly) that they are being fobbed off if their NHS care is not provided by a doctor.

The way that General practitioners have brought in changes to how we are granted appointments has been clumsy and they could have used some good PR because it has been a ham- fisted attempt by them to get the public onside with regard to receptionist triaging patients and explaining about”other”professionals in the practice.

They have been rather arrogant, but surgeries are “we’re told” under a lot of pressure.

I must also add that I spent 17 years in colleges and universities teaching students on Accounting degree courses and such courses covered only a small percentage of the knowledge a fully-qualified accountant needs in real life. And do remember that you can commonly get a degree with a pass mark of only 40 per cent in each subject.

It may or may not be illegal to call yourself a solicitor if you aren't one (I don't know) but anyone can call themselves an accountant. I am an accountant and it took me 7 years of hard study and 5 years of documented practical experience - it grates on me that the title is not protected.

BTW you do not need a degree to become a qualified accountant - that has not been necessary for over 50 years. School leavers without A-levels can study the AAT (Association of Accounting Technicians) qualification and a pass enables them to progress to the Chartered qualifications of the four main accounting bodies in the UK. I have been a marker of three of these bodies for most of my life and an Examiner and Assessor for one of them over about 30 years.

Indeed none of these bodies have ever (I don't think) required a degree to study for their qualifications.

That's awful Catterygirl I was lucky as my parents met at art school and had no problem with my wanting to be an artist. I spent 4 years at art school. There was no degree at that time so I have nothing on paper to show for it, but it made such a difference to my life. I spent some years working as a graphic designer and then did a whole variety of jobs.

My friend had to leave school after O levels because her mother was a widow and needed her working. She got a job in a laboratory and spent the next few years doing evening classes and day release to get the qualifications she needed for a career in science.

My daughter wouldn't be able to do her work as a scientist without the work she had to do for her BSc and PhD. However I worked with quite a few students doing holiday jobs and couldn't really see where their degrees were going to take them. Their total lack of knowledge about history, geography and science was depressing, and their poor use of English was even worse. It seemed to me that 3 years at university, with the attendant student loans were going to be a complete waste. They would have been far better off getting a job and working their way up.

I failed the 11 plus and the teacher brought my parents in to explain why. I found it absolutely stupid and somehow the head teacher got me and sent me to grammar school where I became the number one female student despite breaks to live in Trinidad and Kuwait with my parents. My rivals were Robert Evans and Nigel Sharpe, the cleverest boys in the school, deservedly. When I came home from Kuwait I went to the local school, St. John’s in Thundersley, Essex only to be turfed out by the head teacher again as being too intelligent. I ended up at Southend College of Technology at age 14 well below the entrance age of 18 to study shorthand typing, my mum’s dream job. When I begged mum and dad to send me to medical school to become a doctor they laughed their heads off. It still hurts today I have to say.

LOUISA1523, and I bet you are one of the 'unqualified' medical staff the press seem so intent on getting the general public to believe are replacing doctors

I'd much rather have you looking after me than a junior doctor straight out of medical school

I have a music degree and have taught piano, violin and viola all my career as well as being an accompanist. Was the degree absolutely necessary? I could possibly have done the same things without the degree, but the degree has definitely opened doors for me. I have now taken semi-retirement and am enjoying making music for myself. I have decided to work towards diplomas at different levels on each instrument. It is good to have something to work towards and I have not had the time before as I have been working and bringing up my family. DH asked me why I want to do these qualifications now as I am at the end of my career. My reply was that I don’t need them for career purposes, but for my own sense of accomplishment and achievement. In the past few months another reason is becoming increasingly clear. My hearing has never been perfect because of infections leading to mastoidectomies, but recently it has been deteriorating at an alarming rate. I want to take these qualifications while l still have enough hearing to do justice for my performances. Hopefully, I will always be able to hear music.

Like the Tory MP puffing himself up by claiming a non-existent nursing role? I may be wrong, but I think that impersonating a medic is a criminal offence too. It could certainly cause issues if people followed medical advice from an unqualified person.

I'm not saying either of them was right, but I don't think it is as serious as you obviously do. I would if either of them tried to practice in a role for which they weren't qualified, but in these circumstances they didn't.

Pretending to be a solicitor is a criminal offence (Solicitors Act 1974 I believe) and he only stopped doing that when the Solicitors Regulation Authority contacted him. The context was running for and being elected to parliament. He even said in the HoC that he was a solicitor. That was no shorthand - his fellow MPs know the difference between a qualified solicitor and a trainee. It was clear deception, trying to puff himself up with a non-existent professional status.

I agree both with more vocational courses in schools/18 plus colleges and Monica's "other ways of entry". It's a matter of valuing them all as really important.

But many of them require partnerships in business with proper apprenticeships, thats going to take a lot of change.

Thee are also many uni courses that require placements, its not all full on academic.

Barleyfields

Calling yourself a solicitor when you’re not is a criminal offence. I doubt anyone would have been confused if he had been truthful and called himself a trainee solicitor. The title is straightforward enough. But of course it doesn’t sound as good does it? It wasn’t a form of shorthand, it was a blatant attempt to deceive.

Well, if you know more than the rest of us about their respective motivation, fair enough. All I know is that that sort of thing is not uncommon, and that saying you are (as opposed to impersonating or practicing as) a solicitor when you have a law degree is no more or less an offence than pretending to be s a Mental Nurse when you have no psychiatric training at all.

Context is the important thing. Passing yourself off as medically or legally trained for personal gain is one thing, but using a catch-all term to describe the area in which you worked (particularly when it has nothing to do with your role as an MP) is another. My SIL is a real-time analyst, but as nobody usually knows what that means, he just says he works in IT or systems management. No deceit intended, and if it mattered he would elaborate, but usually it's just shorthand and saves tedious explanations.

I heard yesterday that the government is going to find it extremely difficult to get anywhere near its house building targets because of the lack of skilled tradesmen. Funnily enough, my husband and I said as much when they trotted the numbers out.

Frogs

Allira

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm not joking Frogs!!

Allira

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

As for finding a painter and decorator - forget it until about next November.

Judy54

Not everyone is academic and university life is not necessarily for them. There should be more encouragement for Apprenticeships. As well as Doctors, Nurses and Solicitors we will always need skilled Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers etc. My Nephew (not academic) became an Apprentice Motor Mechanic and absolutely loves his job. There is room for everyone and no one has a right to look down on or belittle somewhat because they feel their education and work style choices are not as good as theirs.

I agree, Judy54

Most posters are assuming that a degree or higher degree are the only qualifications entitled to be called Qualifications.

So - who would you call if you want your house rewired, other electrical jobs done in your home?
You are having a new bathroom or boiler fitted?
Carpentry tasks?
Your car made safe to drive?
An extension built?
A visit to the hairdresser?

We need well-qualified and skilled people more than ever. Businesses are having real problems recruiting skilled personnel because apprenticeships have been neglected at the expense of degree courses.

Calling yourself a solicitor when you’re not is a criminal offence. I doubt anyone would have been confused if he had been truthful and called himself a trainee solicitor. The title is straightforward enough. But of course it doesn’t sound as good does it? It wasn’t a form of shorthand, it was a blatant attempt to deceive.

Barleyfields

👏👏👏 Today the culprit said that referring to himself as a solicitor was a form of shorthand. I’ve heard it all now. I call it a form of lying.

Is it? I think a lot of people use a shorthand for their job title, as people might not know now what their job entails. A friend of mine briefly lived in a Red Wall town in the North. It had always been Labour but got a new Tory MP who claimed to be a Mental Nurse but it turned out that he was an unqualified Healthcare Assistant.

People know what a nurse is, and as far as being an MP goes it gives an idea of his background, in the same way as Jonathan Reynolds saying he was a solicitor when he had a law degree but hadn't completed the training contract (or whatever it was). If either of them had applied for a job in their field (ie as a nurse or a lawyer) it would be different, obviously.

M0nica

Qualifications are needed for lots of professions, but there should be more than one way of obtaining them.

By making it necessary for people to get degrees to get all the qualifications you mention in your post Whitewave many people are being excluded from careers they could excel in.

While I agree that pharmacy is probably a degree only subject. I think there should be a way of someone obtaining environmental science qualifications without going to university, through a longer more incremental training system, that ends up with them getting a degree level qualification.

I agree with your posts on this subject M0nica . There should be more pathways to good jobs besides always having to get the degree first. I’m of the opinion that job experience is often more valuable to an employer than the degree itself, although they do seem to want a degree for most jobs today.
Both my sons left school at 16, one got an engineering apprenticeship, and often speaks of new graduates coming in thinking they already know it all. He got a degree in his 30s whilst working and said he felt sorry for the students who’d come straight from school to university as they were really struggling, unlike him as he already had years of experience under his belt which he could apply to the degree course.

My other son got an admin role at the Environment agency where he worked his way up, he’s in his early 40s now so not really that long ago, I suppose ?
As he wanted to feel like he was on equal footing with his work colleagues he studied as a mature student with the Open University and got a degree in environmental sciences.
It’s not really that long ago in the dim and distance past is it ? but I do wonder if it would still possible to do this today?