Sir Keir Starmer has vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts, describing the current system as “unsustainable, indefensible and unfair”.

Local Mental Health used to be able to provide support in the form of psychological services which weren't full on admission into the Mental Health system but provided counselling and drug intervention in combination with GP's. usually called something like Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) services. These were very much aimed at the group who with early support and intervention could lead a work and home life.

Guess what - yes, they have mostly been cut over the last few years and no longer exist.

You have done very, very well Barleyfields.

But people experience the most severe forms of clinical depression/MDD as individuals differently: it can include psychotic features, and/or it can be combined with other serious MH conditions.

We can't make one rule for all the serious mental health conditions that are at issue, and there are some who most definitely cannot work or only work in certain periods of their life.

This is why we have the support for the most vulnerable in our society and need to keep it just as we do for some physical health conditions.

There are also a whole band of people who with support and proper intervention can work, and one of the current problems here is the lack of that support.

I have suffered from clinical depression for many years. I have been suicidal. Nevertheless I have always worked. I have dragged myself out of bed each morning when I would rather never have woken up. I have no time for those who say they are too depressed to work and expect to live on benefits.

"those at work with stress and depression cannot be expected to effectively pay for the upkeep of those who remain at home with 'stress and depression"

This comment allows for no variation in the severity and impact of mental health conditions.

Steelygran

There appears to be little or no reassurance to those who are severely disabled and can't work, who are worrying themselves sick. The whole message seems to reinforce the strivers vs scroungers mentality and I really thought we'd got beyond that. I agree with those who say the message promotes the idea that someone is only of value if they can work and I predict more disability hate crime because of this. I find it rather sinister that this is happening at the same time as the assisted dying bill is being rushed through.

He hasn't exactly "vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts"

Note these emphasised phrases (my emphasis in black) in what he has said "“A wasted generation. One in eight young people not in education, employment or training and the people who really need that safety net still not always getting the dignity they deserve.
“That’s unsustainable, it’s indefensible and it is unfair – people feel that in their bones.
“It runs contrary to those deep British values that if you can work, you should. And if you want to work, the government should support you, not stop you.”

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StoneofDestiny

Those who can work, should work. It's not about targeting those with significant disabilities, it's about targeting those who make excuses not to do any work or who find it more beneficial to live on benefits rather than work for their money. The increasing numbers of people claiming stress or depression as a reason to stay at home is insupportable. Yes, these are real ailments, but those at work with stress and depression cannot be expected to effectively pay for the upkeep of those who remain at home with 'stress and depression'. It's too easy to do that.

Yes!

Gin

Perhaps before panicking we wait and see what is intended. There are many other benefits other than PIP that certainly are abused. Universal Credit, Carers Allowance etc.

My work involved working to get 16-25 year olds into work via into-work Government schemes. There still are several for young people, not as generous as they used to be but available such as apprenticeships, work placement plus college ( like the old YTS) and T training. Most FE colleges run these schemes. We also used to do very effective retraining schemes for adults where, whilst on them, they kept their benefits plus a training allowance. It would be good to bring such schemes back. We also had job clubs which were very effective in getting people (who wanted to work) back into employment.

I remember talking to a middle-aged Chinese man who told the rest of a group of long term unemployed that in China, if you did not work you died! A lot of those who had not worked for six months or more had lost their confidence, were uninformed on how recruitment currently worked, how to get through an interview and in is amazing that with help, encouragement and some training, many succeeded. If you are living or just about managing on benefits, it is a big step to take to make changes that will rock th boat. Once off benefit it is very long-winded to get back in them if things do not work out. We found that few were work dodgers, just unfirtunates,

I completely agree with you.

Cabbie21

Just heard on the news that Sir KS says the government will protect the vulnerable, and help those who can work to get back to work. Lots to be tweaked.

How it was always intended, but glad it's been spelt out. Very uphill work. Yes to those sort of schemes, gin

I'd like to see some jobs that were dispensed with brought back. Two I can immediately think of are 'parkies' as we called them ie people who patrolled parks to keep an eye on things. Also bus conductors - things are less safe since they went to 'driver only' services.

Perhaps before panicking we wait and see what is intended. There are many other benefits other than PIP that certainly are abused. Universal Credit, Carers Allowance etc.

My work involved working to get 16-25 year olds into work via into-work Government schemes. There still are several for young people, not as generous as they used to be but available such as apprenticeships, work placement plus college ( like the old YTS) and T training. Most FE colleges run these schemes. We also used to do very effective retraining schemes for adults where, whilst on them, they kept their benefits plus a training allowance. It would be good to bring such schemes back. We also had job clubs which were very effective in getting people (who wanted to work) back into employment.

I remember talking to a middle-aged Chinese man who told the rest of a group of long term unemployed that in China, if you did not work you died! A lot of those who had not worked for six months or more had lost their confidence, were uninformed on how recruitment currently worked, how to get through an interview and in is amazing that with help, encouragement and some training, many succeeded. If you are living or just about managing on benefits, it is a big step to take to make changes that will rock th boat. Once off benefit it is very long-winded to get back in them if things do not work out. We found that few were work dodgers, just unfirtunates,

Food production is the most important industry

When was the last time the average shopping basket was filled with UK produced food?
If we went back to only eating 'seasonal' produce it might be different - but we don't. Also if we only bought UK produced food instead of the cheapest, it might be different - but we don't.
If we only ate fresh, and not frozen, maybe it would be different, but we don't.
If we stopped growing 'our own' in our garden, allotments etc it might be different, but we don't.

You don’t appear to know much about the family farms which will have to be sold to pay IHT SoD

I do know that many of the arguments against this tax are similar to those put forward by those owning stately homes after WW1 when death duties had to be paid ie asset rich, cash poor.
Frankly, farmers who no longer want to farm often sell their land to developers at great profit or put it across to solar farming. Fine - no problem with that, it's been happening for years, long before inheritance tax was proposed for them.

However, -reading signs saying 'no farmers, no food' really does suggest they are full of benevolence rather than profit motivated! It sticks in the throat.
Even the odious Jeremy Clarkson admitted he invested in land to avoid inheritance tax, yet has the audacity to join the farmers protests!

Really - the poorer farmers won't be affected. The richer ones will, rightly so. Seriously - if your business is not successful it probably is the wrong business.

Just heard on the news that Sir KS says the government will protect the vulnerable, and help those who can work to get back to work. Lots to be tweaked.

Cabbie21

If these family farms have to be sold off to pay IHT, there will be less food produced in this country.

And they'll be bought by wealthy landowners or private equity firms.

Food production is the most important industry.
This is such an ill-thought out move by R Reeves.

If these family farms have to be sold off to pay IHT, there will be less food produced in this country.

You don’t appear to know much about the family farms which will have to be sold to pay IHT SoD. The value of their land, buildings, machinery and stock may take them over the threshold whilst they live off an overdraft. They are by no means wealthy. The same applies to owners of other small businesses.

There appears to be little or no reassurance to those who are severely disabled and can't work, who are worrying themselves sick. The whole message seems to reinforce the strivers vs scroungers mentality

The detail is not there yet - but the benefits system needs looking at as it is being exploited - I say that as someone who has significantly disabled people in the extended family. They wont be forced to work - because they can't! (Too physically disabled to leave the care facility). As for one with a significant mental disability - if they can find them the right employer to work for, there will be nobody more delighted than them.

I hope the Labour Government also looks at Royal Finances and the reason why their Wills are sealed while nobody else can do this. There is money being hidden there while taxpayers continue to fund them. Let's look at all 'unearned' benefits. Ridiculous we are funding independently wealthy multimillionaires.

They are penalising ....... the farmers.
That is simply not true.
The wealthy landowners should have no more right to pass on their belongings to their offspring without their offspring paying inheritance tax than the rest of us do.

It's pretty galling to see, as I often do while visiting family, signs up about farmers being penalised by 'family tax'. They are millionaires and not just on paper! Millionaire lifestyles being flaunted around in front of the rest of us.

There appears to be little or no reassurance to those who are severely disabled and can't work, who are worrying themselves sick. The whole message seems to reinforce the strivers vs scroungers mentality and I really thought we'd got beyond that. I agree with those who say the message promotes the idea that someone is only of value if they can work and I predict more disability hate crime because of this. I find it rather sinister that this is happening at the same time as the assisted dying bill is being rushed through.

I would far rather have somebody from overseas with the necessary skills and motivation than somebody from the UK who has been bullied into doing the job because his/her benefits have been stopped. I'm not persuaded that their motivation would be very high

I totally agree with you. I'm pointing out there are jobs that people in the UK could and should fill. I also think work in the care sector needs much greater training and monitoring to ensure the right people are in place. However there are many vacancies in hospitality, cleaning and agriculture that need filling, many that require few skills or qualifications.
It is however vital that proper assessments of capability to work
are done - as we know that no all disabilities are obvious. It's not about hounding the genuinely disabled, it's about ensuring ONLY the genuinely disabled are claiming.

The National Autistic Society has campaigned for bespoke employment opportunities to be created for people with autism, many of whom would want to work if their specific requirements were catered to. The same is true for people who have a range of other disabilities. The system does need to fundamentally change if work placements and permanent placements are to be offered, but surely, if people want to work, there is a way?

Who is to say that those genuinely unfit for work will be penalised undines? Hopefully those who are capable of work will be weeded out,

We don’t yet know what is going to be put in place or how cuts are going to fall, so it is premature to judge. We can only speculate.

The amount of fraud in PIP has been assessed as nil.