Sir Keir Starmer has vowed to press ahead with savage welfare cuts, describing the current system as “unsustainable, indefensible and unfair”.

I think Keir Starmer has gone overboard in promotion of the work ethic. Let's face it, for many work is unpleasant, boring and unfulfilling. Add to this the fact that many jobs no longer pay a living wage, I find it unsurprising that many people don't want to work. Also some people are genuinely unable to work for physical or mental reasons and they are often unable to find any support from within the NHS.

The implication now is that you are in some way inferior if you are not part of an active work force. It is no longer acceptable for women to want to have time to be with their children, if you don't work for any reason you are a scrounger.

I am not sure how pensioners fit into this scenario, probably we are seen as an unavoidable expense.

Perhaps I should add that I put in over 40 years of toil at the work-face and I had some physically demanding and mind rottingly boring jobs. I don't think it makes me superior but I do think I deserve my pensions.

Barleyfields

Do you really think that stacking shelves is just for the benefit of shareholders? What about the benefits to the economy and the consumer, and the self esteem which comes with earning a wage rather than being given a handout? Far too many people live on benefits when they could be earning a wage.

No, I am saying that people who are unable to work because of illness, disability or caring responsibilities are just as valuable as human beings as those lucky enough to be able to earn a wage and should not be treated as "lesser"

They are very worrying statistics Silverbrooks. It would be interesting to know how many have ever attempted to get a job of any kind - and how many are supplementing their benefits with the proceeds of crime.

A big contributor to the rise in people unable to work because of health problems is the fact that people with illnesses and pain are not getting treated in time

This is certainly true and is yet another reason for the government to be investing in the health services - and indeed other public services. I would like to see them borrowing more and spending more - but on the right things that benefit everyone.

Cossy wrote Sadly it’s a fact that far too many under 25 year old are not in work, education or training and resources should be given to them to help them into suitable and sustainable work.

From the BBC.

The latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures suggest 987,000 16-24-year-olds were not in work, education or training (NEET) between October and December. That is 13.4%, or almost one out of every seven people in that age range.

Young men are more likely than young women to be NEET. According to the latest ONS estimates. In October to December 2024, an estimated 14.4% of all male 16-24-year-olds were NEET, compared with 12.3% female.

Overall numbers are rising too. The October to December 2024 figure of 987,000 was up by 110,000 in a year.

In 2023, almost one out of every five NEET had a mental-health condition.

Those are very worrying statistics, aren’t they?

Do you really think that stacking shelves is just for the benefit of shareholders? What about the benefits to the economy and the consumer, and the self esteem which comes with earning a wage rather than being given a handout? Far too many people live on benefits when they could be earning a wage.

If the aim here is to save money, because the social security bill is "unsustainable, then people in genuine need are going to suffer. PIP is supposedly going to be pegged, with no increases for inflation.
Some people are never going to be able to work and should not be made to feel that they are "freeloaders". There is more value in life than the ability to stack shelves for the benefit of shareholders.
This is a political choice so that Reeves can look tough.
Why are they so terrified of asking the wealthy to contribute? Why do they consider the wealthy to be so lacking in compassion or generosity.

The system has needed looked at for years. However, I hope people who do need benefits continue to get the support. Personally, I think Covid did a lot of damage to people's health. I've never been the same since having it and know quite a few people who say the same.

Going back to working age benefits (ie unemployment benefit as it was called)

Many, many people on benefits (for whatever reason) have terrible lives.

Anyone with a disability, care leavers, some families, simply do not receive enough money to live what we would consider pretty average lifestyle.

Enough nutritious food, enough to heat their homes, repair their homes, often living in substandard damp homes (not always privately rented!)

I absolutely agree something needs to be done to get those who are able to work into work, but don’t be fooled by the some media who would have us believe these people all have 72” TV, painted nails, drugs/alcohol/cigarettes etc. it’s just not true for most xx

Primrose53

He would do better concentrating on The Speaker who has spent £250,000on luxury flights for himself and his wife and two staff all over the world.

He already gets to live in an extremely opulent palace.

I’m interested to know where you got this information from. How do you know this? Can you back up this claim with relevant detail that we can read for ourselves please? Your comment lacks detail.

Cossy

Jane112

A big contributor to the rise in people unable to work because of health problems is the fact that people with illnesses and pain are not getting treated in time and many are waiting 5-6 years for joint replacements, they want to work but as the severity of the pain increases it becomes impossible, mobility is reduced and their fitness drops further. My friend has had to give up work and her dog because she can no longer walk any distance because she needs 2 new knees, a neighbour who walked every day to keep herself as fit as possible as she gets older has had to stop because she needs gynae surgery and walking is becoming increasingly painful. If those who are sick and in pain aren't treated then they will be off sick.

This as well!

That is actually an argument for prioritising people of working age on waiting lists, unpalatable though that would be to older people. The waiting lists are very slowly coming down, but I can’t see a short term resolution because there is just not the capacity to deliver at a faster pace.

Jane112

A big contributor to the rise in people unable to work because of health problems is the fact that people with illnesses and pain are not getting treated in time and many are waiting 5-6 years for joint replacements, they want to work but as the severity of the pain increases it becomes impossible, mobility is reduced and their fitness drops further. My friend has had to give up work and her dog because she can no longer walk any distance because she needs 2 new knees, a neighbour who walked every day to keep herself as fit as possible as she gets older has had to stop because she needs gynae surgery and walking is becoming increasingly painful. If those who are sick and in pain aren't treated then they will be off sick.

This as well!

PIP is paid to working age people with conditions which affect them day to day. It’s non means tested and paid to both working and non working people.

It’s a hard fact, but having worked in the DWP for 14 years, up til retirement in 2022.

If what Starmer is saying is, those who can work should, and we have a duty of care for those who cannot work.

Sadly it’s a fact that far too many under 25 year old are not in work, education or training and resources should be given to them to help them into suitable and sustainable work.

If they refuse to take up the offers of help, then what’s left other than penalising them by reducing benefits? It’s a really tough call and my fear is genuinely “unwell people” may be penalised.

A big contributor to the rise in people unable to work because of health problems is the fact that people with illnesses and pain are not getting treated in time and many are waiting 5-6 years for joint replacements, they want to work but as the severity of the pain increases it becomes impossible, mobility is reduced and their fitness drops further. My friend has had to give up work and her dog because she can no longer walk any distance because she needs 2 new knees, a neighbour who walked every day to keep herself as fit as possible as she gets older has had to stop because she needs gynae surgery and walking is becoming increasingly painful. If those who are sick and in pain aren't treated then they will be off sick.

It is hard to think that the UK is one of the richest countries in the in the world. Where is all the money going? Now you have a Labour government so things should, in theory , improve for most people.

Babs03

For approx 15 years we have faced swingeing cuts, and been told it has to be done, but as was said on the politics show yesterday, when does austerity end and all the money saved with these cuts actually filter through to the public?
Nothing is improving, public services are on their knees, bills are sky high, and yet we are told worse times are ahead.
Isn’t there a case for borrowing to spend more rather than just cut, cut, cut, because a confident public buy, buy, buy, and do the economy benefits.
Am sure my idea will be shot down in flames, but let’s be honest, the present death by a thousand cuts isn’t working either.

I've read what say Maizie says on borrowing many times, trouble is tbh I don't understand enough about it so can't join in properly tho feel inclined to agree up to a certain point.

I think the Telegraph is trying to stir it rather by the red top style headlines "savage' when we don't know what they are or how they'll operate.

Yes Silverbrooks I think they will tighten up reviews, a problem here is the person power to actually do it properly.
My friend on PIP has already had a letter saying " things will stay as they are for you", this friend is on a 10 year grant on the lowest level.

It seems far too easy for people to opt out of working, or to work only a few hours. That has to stop.

Correction - and so the economy benefits

For approx 15 years we have faced swingeing cuts, and been told it has to be done, but as was said on the politics show yesterday, when does austerity end and all the money saved with these cuts actually filter through to the public?
Nothing is improving, public services are on their knees, bills are sky high, and yet we are told worse times are ahead.
Isn’t there a case for borrowing to spend more rather than just cut, cut, cut, because a confident public buy, buy, buy, and do the economy benefits.
Am sure my idea will be shot down in flames, but let’s be honest, the present death by a thousand cuts isn’t working either.

Oreo

Primrose53

He would do better concentrating on The Speaker who has spent £250,000on luxury flights for himself and his wife and two staff all over the world.

He already gets to live in an extremely opulent palace.

Really? 🤬 where does he go and why?

www.lep.co.uk/news/politics/jet-setting-speaker-heres-how-much-chorley-mp-sir-lindsay-hoyle-spent-on-foreign-travel-5019922#

Yes. This Turn2Us page explains more:

www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/personal-independence-payment/when-does-personal-independence-payment-(pip)-stop

If PIP is going to be targetted it sounds like the DWP are going to be more stringent about reviews.

I also think people need to know that PIP can be awarded for as little as 9 months right up to 10 years or in some cases indefinite. So you're not on it "for life" once you get it, it depends.

Me too.

To put some numbers on child DLA:

In 2023, there were 682,000 under-16s in England and Wales receiving Disability Living Allowance, equivalent to one in every sixteen children, with the majority of awards made for children with learning difficulties, behavioral disorders, or ADHD.

Four-fifths of Child DLA awards in 2023 were for children whose main condition was a learning difficulty, behavioral disorder, or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

I need to know more detail as to where and how the cuts could happen.

For example in the BBC I player summary it says there will be support workers to get back into work which is a good idea. I'm not sure how well jobs available match people seeking work match up and whether its regional.

What's the decision process to take people off ESA.

How can we get over the complex and time consuming situation of people needing to claim benefits as jobs don't pay enough if you can only work or only get work for limited hours or zero contracts.

BTW do people know that children can get DLA when they are disabled so that adds to the figures.