What is a rich household?

There are very few people with large estates earning little money. Most big agricultural estates are managed to within an inch of their lives. There isn't a brick hovel or a mud hole that isn't let or rented out to someone. Tenanted farms are taken in hand and farmed using only contractors, no farm cottages all let out for high rents.

David49 you clearly do not live in a rural area surrounded by big estates and seen how the land is managed now and how much better off these familie are, but managing their estates as a full time job, and most of them have done degrees in agriculture and estate management at Reading University or the Royal Agricultural university at Cirencester.

GrannyGravy13

No, no and no again.

You cannot price commodities and/or consumables according to anyone’s bank balance.

I agree. It has to be charged solely on consumption.

M0nica

There are very few people with large estates earning little money. Most big agricultural estates are managed to within an inch of their lives. There isn't a brick hovel or a mud hole that isn't let or rented out to someone. Tenanted farms are taken in hand and farmed using only contractors, no farm cottages all let out for high rents.

David49 you clearly do not live in a rural area surrounded by big estates and seen how the land is managed now and how much better off these familie are, but managing their estates as a full time job, and most of them have done degrees in agriculture and estate management at Reading University or the Royal Agricultural university at Cirencester.

Monica

You have gathered exactly the opposite conclusion, my parents were tenants on a traditional estate I know exactly how it all works.
From a traditional let estate in the 1950s, it’s evolved from purely agricultural to a business estate providing employment for more than were ever employed in the past, a few buildings have been converted into residential, but no new build. I would say very little money has been made out of the farming side for many years, either from tenanted or in hand land.
This year almost all the estate has been put into environmental schemes of one kind or another, with the aim of converting to organic in 3 yrs, that’s another story we will see the results in due course. The boss did go to the Royal at Cirencester but only the “champagne course,” to learn to leave management to the professionals

I’ve no connection these days but I know them well enough as neighbours, Ive seen 3 generations and I honestly can’t criticize what they have done and I’m sure thenext will carry on in the same way. There are several other estates locally that are run in the same way.

They are far from the wealthiest locally, the manor house in the local village is owned by a Billionaire who commutes by helicopter, if was some republican activist with a chip on my shoulder, who believed that everyone should be equal I might envy their wealth, but I don’t, they have their social set I have mine. They use trusts and any other allowances to pass on their wealth just like the rest of us, successive governments have allowed that and unless we elect a communist into No10 I’m not expecting that to change

I am not envious nor do I have a "chip on my shoulder" I'm not a communist either but I do question the ability for the very rich to avoid paying their dues to society when others who are less wealthy pay up. The widow, who's house is her main asset, can end up paying a high percentage of the worth on her death in IHT whilst the wealthy landowner can pass on millions completely tax free. For me it's about justice and fairness, not envy.
I've married into a wealthy family so I see it at first hand, the advantages that are passed on from one generation to another. Houses passed onto children and the "generous" market rent paid by granny goes straight into a trust, all legal and all tax efficient. I benefit from it but I'd still like to live in a fairer world. Do I take advantage of the tax laws?, Yes, of course. Would I complain if they were changed so I paid more tax? NO! I can afford to and so can lots of people!

Cumbrianmale56 I think the main problem isn't so much the rich, but the tax system that hasn't been reformed since the last decade. I would support raising the tax threshold to 20k a year, which would improve the living standards of millions of the poorest workers, and bringing in a new tax rate of 30% for people earning 50 to 80k a year, which would remove the huge jump from 20% to 40% we have now in this tax bracket.

Agreed, current income tax system is most of the problem. It seems raising the tax threshold to 20k and adding bands could help.

Yes, the poorest people should be tax exempt, I agree with that. I think the British are way over taxed in general.

Sarnia

GrannyGravy13

No, no and no again.

You cannot price commodities and/or consumables according to anyone’s bank balance.

I agree. It has to be charged solely on consumption.

It's the standing charge which is the problem for those on very low incomes, which bears no relation to consumption.

Standing charges cover the cost of:

Maintaining the energy supply network – the wires and cables that deliver the gas and electricity to our homes
Supporting government social and energy investment schemes like the Warm Home Discount and Smart meters
Operating costs - such as billing and metering services
Failed suppliers exiting the energy market – electricity only

Why should those on very low incomes have to pay for failed suppliers exiting the energy market? Why should any customers?

Norah

Cumbrianmale56 I think the main problem isn't so much the rich, but the tax system that hasn't been reformed since the last decade. I would support raising the tax threshold to 20k a year, which would improve the living standards of millions of the poorest workers, and bringing in a new tax rate of 30% for people earning 50 to 80k a year, which would remove the huge jump from 20% to 40% we have now in this tax bracket.

Agreed, current income tax system is most of the problem. It seems raising the tax threshold to 20k and adding bands could help.

I think the first 20k should be tax exempt, then the next 30k should be taxed at 20%, then the rate should be 30%, up to 125k a year, where the 45% rate starts. It would make a huge difference to the vast majority of taxpayers and boost the economy as people would have more money to spend and the government would gain more in VAT, fuel duty and corporaton tax. Also keeping the 45% rate would avoid any arguments that the rich were benefiting from tax cuts.

Cumbrianmale56

Norah

Cumbrianmale56 I think the main problem isn't so much the rich, but the tax system that hasn't been reformed since the last decade. I would support raising the tax threshold to 20k a year, which would improve the living standards of millions of the poorest workers, and bringing in a new tax rate of 30% for people earning 50 to 80k a year, which would remove the huge jump from 20% to 40% we have now in this tax bracket.

Agreed, current income tax system is most of the problem. It seems raising the tax threshold to 20k and adding bands could help.

I think the first 20k should be tax exempt, then the next 30k should be taxed at 20%, then the rate should be 30%, up to 125k a year, where the 45% rate starts. It would make a huge difference to the vast majority of taxpayers and boost the economy as people would have more money to spend and the government would gain more in VAT, fuel duty and corporaton tax. Also keeping the 45% rate would avoid any arguments that the rich were benefiting from tax cuts.

That could work. I'd change the 45% to 60% over 125k a year.

Many of us over 65’s would certainly benefit from a starting figure of £20k before paying tax and as another poster has said, we will be spending the extra cash in our pocket/ purse so everyone including the government will benefit.

Cumbrianmale56

Norah

Cumbrianmale56 I think the main problem isn't so much the rich, but the tax system that hasn't been reformed since the last decade. I would support raising the tax threshold to 20k a year, which would improve the living standards of millions of the poorest workers, and bringing in a new tax rate of 30% for people earning 50 to 80k a year, which would remove the huge jump from 20% to 40% we have now in this tax bracket.

Agreed, current income tax system is most of the problem. It seems raising the tax threshold to 20k and adding bands could help.

I think the first 20k should be tax exempt, then the next 30k should be taxed at 20%, then the rate should be 30%, up to 125k a year, where the 45% rate starts. It would make a huge difference to the vast majority of taxpayers and boost the economy as people would have more money to spend and the government would gain more in VAT, fuel duty and corporaton tax. Also keeping the 45% rate would avoid any arguments that the rich were benefiting from tax cuts.

It’s more likely to push house prices even higher, as a tax free investment it’s just too good.

Norah

Cumbrianmale56

Norah

Cumbrianmale56 I think the main problem isn't so much the rich, but the tax system that hasn't been reformed since the last decade. I would support raising the tax threshold to 20k a year, which would improve the living standards of millions of the poorest workers, and bringing in a new tax rate of 30% for people earning 50 to 80k a year, which would remove the huge jump from 20% to 40% we have now in this tax bracket.

Agreed, current income tax system is most of the problem. It seems raising the tax threshold to 20k and adding bands could help.

I think the first 20k should be tax exempt, then the next 30k should be taxed at 20%, then the rate should be 30%, up to 125k a year, where the 45% rate starts. It would make a huge difference to the vast majority of taxpayers and boost the economy as people would have more money to spend and the government would gain more in VAT, fuel duty and corporaton tax. Also keeping the 45% rate would avoid any arguments that the rich were benefiting from tax cuts.

That could work. I'd change the 45% to 60% over 125k a year.

These suggestions are far too sensible to interest Rachel Reeves.

Nah!

If someone is 'poor' due to life style choice why should others subsidise them even more.

That is very harsh, Moii.

It is not always lifestyle choice which dictates income.

I assume you are in a rich household - is that through your own high intelligence and hard work?

And good health, good luck, and other people's wise decisions which you had no control over.

foxie48

Funnily enough no one seems to be bothered that the poorest people usually pay more for their gas and electric! The standing charge is a higher proportion of your overall bill if you use less and those who have struggled to pay their bills and have been put on meters pay a higher charge.

This is so true. Also those without a reasonable credit rating can’t buy fuel on credit meters and have to pay extra on a prepayment meter. I paid my daughter’s fuel account by DD for a couple of years so now she can have her own account.

Usedtobeblonde

Many of us over 65’s would certainly benefit from a starting figure of £20k before paying tax and as another poster has said, we will be spending the extra cash in our pocket/ purse so everyone including the government will benefit.

Totally agree with you and the amount..

Many feel that money “earned” in this country should also be taxed here, even if the person earning it does not live here.

Usedtobeblonde

Many of us over 65’s would certainly benefit from a starting figure of £20k before paying tax and as another poster has said, we will be spending the extra cash in our pocket/ purse so everyone including the government will benefit.

Yes, it's also very unfair on pensioners who have the state pension and a modest private pension to find they have to pay tax because their income is above 12.5 k a year. Also the current income tax threshold is a discentive to work for many people.

.

Absolutely NO.

30% of all U.K. tax is paid by just 1% of the population. If they leave (as many now are - "Thank you 2TK") then us standard max payers will have to pay more tax to make up the shortfall.

My Granny often quotes Churchill - "You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer". (They're the ones that help create the jobs for us)
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I've always thought that the first £20k of earnings should be tax free and the rest - no matter how much- should all be taxed at at flat percentage of, say, 25%. No ifs. No buts. No get out clauses.

The Government would end up just as well off especially as they wouldn't need the hundreds of thousands of Civil Servants now needed to check and delve into the present mash of clauses, exemptions etc.
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Lucky you. I work and pay tax - dont get anything courtesy of anyone.

Aren't those most vulnerable and use more heating due to health, disability issues likely to be eligible for payments/benefits to help with energy costs.The UK has the highest energy costs in Europe, how are other countries managing to upgrade systems without basing customer charges on income? Wouldn't be due to many being nationalised perhaps.

If it’s $250,000 then it’s definitely not the UK ..!!